Big 12 Conference Championship Game??

cloverleaf · Apr 8, 2015

Current NCAA rules state a conference must have 12 teams to hold a conference championship game. The Big 12 has proposed changes to that rule. The Big 12 is the only Power 5 conference with 10 teams and holds no title game. While the Big 12 teams play a round robin schedule, the new proposal would allow the conference to host a season ending title game, which the conference had from 1996-2010. Without a championship game, the Big 12 had co-champions last year, and both Baylor and TCU were left out of the College Football Playoffs.

Look for a Big 12 championship game beginning in 2016.

CoachCB · Apr 8, 2015

They haven't had a championship game since 2010? Wow. Didn't realize it's been that long.

This would be bullshit. They need to add 2 teams.

BigdaddyQH · Apr 8, 2015

It will be between the #1 and#@ teams in the Big 12. Last year would have seen a Baylor-TCU game. One thing you can be sure of. The game will be a rematch. The reason why the other conferences will go along is that they get to chose who plays in the CC game. This way, if Ohio State goes undefeated and Michigan State's only loss is to Ohio State, the Big 10 could opt for those two teams to play in the CC game, if no one in the Big 10 West has a better record. It makes each game count more. I like it.

TyBounce · Apr 8, 2015

I'm not opposed to the ncaa making an exception for the big-12 , but i agree with coach that it would make a lot more sense to expand. (or just stick with current model) .... BUT if the ncaa does make an exception they should mandate that they split into 2 divisions of 5 teams , otherwise the issue bigdaddy brought up might come in to play. ... I dont think the SEC or PAC-12 would do away with divisions to get the 2 best teams , but i'm almost sure the BIG-10 and ACC would.

BigdaddyQH · Apr 9, 2015

This is the exact reason why the ACC backed the Big 12. They would not have bothered if the Big 12 has to split into two 5 team divisions because it gets them nowhere. Wiith the conferences being allowed to pick the two best teams to play in the CC game, you eliminate a problem that many conferences face. In 2012, Stanford and Oregon were the best teams in the Pac 12. If there were a CC game, they should have played each other even though they were in the same division because the best record in the other division was UCLA at 8-4. In 2013, should Auburn have played a 1 loss Alabama team or a 2 loss Missouri team?

GoSooners · Apr 10, 2015

Dumb idea. Their trying to put lipstick on a pig by having a championship game in a conference with no divisions. A conference championship without divisions in the conference is pointless and will only cause more problems. If a team runs the table in the conference and then has to play in a championship game is counter-productive of the one true champion approach. Where the Big 12 brass made their mistake last year was not declaring one true champion. Does anybody honestly believe that the Playoff Committee wouldn't have still found a way to get Ohio State in the final four even if the Big 12 had a title game? I don't, not without an OU or Texas in the mix.

BigdaddyQH · Apr 10, 2015

The problem is this. Neither OU or Texas look like teams that will be serious national contenders in the near future. If the Big 12 has to depend on teams that went 8-5 and 6-7 respectively last season, they are in major trouble. The fact of the matter is that teams like Baylor, Oklahoma State, and TCU have just about caught up to OU and Texas. This means that the Big 12 will have to act like a conference, not just the "OU-Texas" conference. If this post season tourney turns out to be a popularity contest between the best teams in the 5 power conferences, the Big 12 is odd man out until either OU or Texas can improve their teams to the point of becoming serious challengers. I sure do not see that in the cards this season, or next.

The point that everyone is missing here is this. Why did the ACC decide to go along with the Big 12, and why is there no real objections by the other three conferences? The reason is obvious. By allowing Texas to pick the top two teams in their conference to have a playoff game, the others are also allowed to pick the top two teams in their conference, regardless of which division they happen to be in. It will not matter if they are in the same division or not. This gives the power 5 conferences much more power to determine who will be in their CC game. Why not just end "Divisional Play" and go to a schedule that allows one or two games between teams on a yearly basis and everything else on a rotating basis?

Conan · Apr 10, 2015

BigdaddyQH said:
It will be between the #1 and#@ teams in the Big 12. Last year would have seen a Baylor-TCU game. One thing you can be sure of. The game will be a rematch. The reason why the other conferences will go along is that they get to chose who plays in the CC game. This way, if Ohio State goes undefeated and Michigan State's only loss is to Ohio State, the Big 10 could opt for those two teams to play in the CC game, if no one in the Big 10 West has a better record. It makes each game count more. I like it.

Now that is an interesting point. With a round robin schedule, the top team with the best record (with tie breaking rules as needed) is the clear champ. But the round robin schedule means that every team plays every other team during the season resulting in a CCG rematch in every instance. That could easily and has already led to controversy in the case of split results after the CCG has been played. The only fair way to settle it to everyone's satisfaction is to make it a 2 out of 3 game series between the teams involved. That is ridiculous -- however it's the only fair way to settle it. If the B12 split into 2 5-team divisions, every team would still be able to play every other team in the conference during the regular season so every CCG would still be a rematch. At this point, any B12 championship game would be a rematch.

It's also true that a rematch will sometimes occur in most of the other conferences as a result of inter-divisional play. The B12 however is guaranteed to have a rematch every year.

Expanding to 12 schools with 2 6-team divisions is the best thing the conference can do. I know a lot of people here have expressed their opinions of who the 2 additional schools should be. I have my own ideas on that subject. First of all, I think that adding BYU would cut across and agree with many other's ideas. After all adding an entire state with a major TV market makes a lot of sense. BYU also has been a scrappy opponent and would likely fit in pretty well in that sense. But my 2nd choice would be Boise St. Why? Because they would add to the conferences overall strength and also bring with them many fans who know them as a Mountain West power. Boise would add to the B12's recognition in a broad sense due to a lot of interest in Boise St. across the nation.

I really don't like the idea of a championship game being a replay of a regularly scheduled conference game every year.

GoSooners · Apr 10, 2015

Conan said:
Now that is an interesting point. With a round robin schedule, the top team with the best record (with tie breaking rules as needed) is the clear champ. But the round robin schedule means that every team plays every other team during the season resulting in a CCG rematch in every instance. That could easily and has already led to controversy in the case of split results after the CCG has been played. The only fair way to settle it to everyone's satisfaction is to make it a 2 out of 3 game series between the teams involved. That is ridiculous -- however it's the only fair way to settle it. If the B12 split into 2 5-team divisions, every team would still be able to play every other team in the conference during the regular season so every CCG would still be a rematch. At this point, any B12 championship game would be a rematch.

It's also true that a rematch will sometimes occur in most of the other conferences as a result of inter-divisional play. The B12 however is guaranteed to have a rematch every year.

Expanding to 12 schools with 2 6-team divisions is the best thing the conference can do. I know a lot of people here have expressed their opinions of who the 2 additional schools should be. I have my own ideas on that subject. First of all, I think that adding BYU would cut across and agree with many other's ideas. After all adding an entire state with a major TV market makes a lot of sense. BYU also has been a scrappy opponent and would likely fit in pretty well in that sense. But my 2nd choice would be Boise St. Why? Because they would add to the conferences overall strength and also bring with them many fans who know them as a Mountain West power. Boise would add to the B12's recognition in a broad sense due to a lot of interest in Boise St. across the nation.

I really don't like the idea of a championship game being a replay of a regularly scheduled conference game every year.

Conan, I wouldn't mind the split divisions of 5 teams each. They also wouldn't necessarily have to play a round robin schedule. They could be like the SEC and have a 4 game non-conference schedule and just play 4 teams from the other division. The problem is the NCAA doesn't allow a split division conference with less than 12 teams. So it's pretty much a mute point. I agree about BYU. But I don't think they'll be allowed in any conference until they ease up on their "no play on Sunday" stance. Plus I'm not sure the Big 12 will look west now that they have West Virginia in the conference. The long travel to far outposts like Morgantown to Boise is a long haul. The long travel didn't work for the WAC, and I doubt it will work for the Big 12. When you cover that much geography, you lose some of your conference tradition. It's hard to be rivals when your dealing with that kind of distance.

groundhog11 · Apr 10, 2015

Maybe the acc teams will go to 3 divisions....big12 has their conference and maybe winners play....

also so I think it helps with big10/sec from poaching acc teams...

Conan · Apr 10, 2015

GoSooners said:
Conan, I wouldn't mind the split divisions of 5 teams each. They also wouldn't necessarily have to play a round robin schedule. They could be like the SEC and have a 4 game non-conference schedule and just play 4 teams from the other division. The problem is the NCAA doesn't allow a split division conference with less than 12 teams. So it's pretty much a mute point. I agree about BYU. But I don't think they'll be allowed in any conference until they ease up on their "no play on Sunday" stance. Plus I'm not sure the Big 12 will look west now that they have West Virginia in the conference. The long travel to far outposts like Morgantown to Boise is a long haul. The long travel didn't work for the WAC, and I doubt it will work for the Big 12. When you cover that much geography, you lose some of your conference tradition. It's hard to be rivals when your dealing with that kind of distance.

OK but wouldn't it be nice to see little BYU take down the mighty Longwhornes from time to time? I'd look forward to it.

GoSooners · Apr 11, 2015

Conan said:
OK but wouldn't it be nice to see little BYU take down the mighty Longwhornes from time to time? I'd look forward to it.

I always relish a Longhorn ass beating, which they've had the last two times they've played BYU. Come to think of it, I bet Texas would vote a big fat no to ever playing those slow 28 year old white boys again.

BigdaddyQH · Apr 11, 2015

Again we get back to the point of why no Power 5 Conference is objecting to this format change. They are doing so because by allowing the Big 12 to basically pick and choose who plays in their Championship Game, the other Power 5 conferences get to do the same. The other conferences are basically downgrading the importance of divisional play compared to total wins.

Speaking of OU and Texas, there is a decent article by Dennis Dodd (not one of my favorite writers) about the demise of those two as the power in the Big 12 Conference and the rise of Baylor and TCU. Not a bad read. It touches on the big problem the Big 12 has because of the demise of the two glamour schools and the rise of the two small private schools. I think everyone in here agrees that the best thing the Big 12 can do is add two teams and go to divisional play but Texas does not agree, and we all know that the rest of the conference does whatever Texas tells them to do. Dodd's article can be read on CBS Sports

Conan · Apr 11, 2015

I'm not so sure the rest of the B12 would follow Texas's lead anymore. They no longer have a stranglehold on the top talent in the state and can't even keep some of the best recruits from leaving the state... and that's aside from what OU can poach from Texas. Hell, the whorns became so ego-tripped out, they literally drove teams away including TAMU and Missouri, both who have done surprisingly well in the SEC. That's the B12's loss but also Texas's loss. At least a few heads rolled over all of this and from the Longwhorn network deal too. Texas deserves to be all fucked up and messed up. My problem with them goes way back. They nearly went to the Pac-12 some years ago and would likely have gone west had the AD's in the Pac not rejected them. That's too bad. I would have really be looking forward to the day when the Buffs beat the Whorns into the dirt.

GoSooners · Apr 11, 2015

What I think COULD happen with the Big 12 is they pick up Cincinnati as an 11th member to bookend West Virginia in the east. It also gives the Big 12 a wider footprint and recruiting area. And with 11 teams the Big 12 schools can then drop down to an 8 game conference schedule with an added conference championship game.

groundhog11 · Apr 16, 2015

GoSooners said:
What I think COULD happen with the Big 12 is they pick up Cincinnati as an 11th member to bookend West Virginia in the east. It also gives the Big 12 a wider footprint and recruiting area. And with 11 teams the Big 12 schools can then drop down to an 8 game conference schedule with an added conference championship game.

I dont think any of the schools ( not Texas,Oklahoma) want to pick up a cincy type school because it would mean you would lose either Texas or Oklahoma as a home football game every yr....

cloverleaf · Apr 16, 2015

The Big 12 will have a conference title game during the 2016 or 2017 season regardless of other teams being added.

The votes are there and it's pretty much a done deal.

BigdaddyQH · Apr 16, 2015

I agree. Also, the Big 12 would have to add two teams if they were to expand. That means the 4 Texas schools and the two Oklahoma schools remain in the same division.

GoSooners · Apr 16, 2015

ground hog11 said:
I dont think any of the schools ( not Texas,Oklahoma) want to pick up a cincy type school because it would mean you would lose either Texas or Oklahoma as a home football game every yr....

Yes, but the loss of Texas or OU on the schedule would be made up by the shared revenue they would receive from the Big 12 CG. It's obviously still not the right solution, which would be to add 2 more teams. The biggest problem for the Big 12 is both OU and Texas being down for the last 5 years, and the conference having only 10 teams.

It's just like the Big 10, irrelevant when both Michigan and OSU are down. Or the Pac-12, irrelevant when USC is down (though Stanford and Oregon have filled the void nicely). Same thing happens with the ACC when Florida and Miami are down. And the same thing happens to the SEC when both Alabama and Tennessee are down. Though with 14 teams now, the SEC has a better chance of surviving their two bluebloods being down. The bottom line is in today's game it's better to have strength in numbers. This is most likely going to be the ultimate downfall of the Big 12 unless they add more teams or eventually converge with another conference. Which is also a strong possibility.

RunLeeRun · Apr 17, 2015

I probably agree that Big 12 biggest issue is Texas/Oklahoma being down. Them rising again to top ten would do more for the conference than adding a champioship game. I do think the cg is important.Fact is TCU, Baylor, Kst ect, dont carry the same value.

Big 12 Conference Championship Game??

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