Is Daily Fantasy Sports A Form Of Gambling? Of Course It Is

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Op-Ed: Is Daily Fantasy Sports Gambling? Of Course It Is


Jeff Hwang, July 28, 2015

The debate over whether daily fantasy sports does, in fact, constitute gambling is heating up.

In the wake of Yahoo’s recent entrance into the DFS market, Legal Sports Report’s Dustin Gouker noted that the Wall Street Journal and New York Times had little problem labeling DFS as either “gambling” or as legitimizing “a pastime that closely resembles gambling.”

Gouker also surveyed 152 articles covering the launch, concluding that (only) about one-third of the articles include either explicit or “soft” references linking DFS to gambling, while the remainder avoided the terms “betting,” “gambling,” or “wagering,” instead choosing to characterize DFS as a way to “win cash” or “compete for cash prizes.”

And Howard Stutz of the Las Vegas Review - Journal took stock of the “debate,” revealing that both gaming operators and regulators alike in Nevada widely believe that DFS “constitutes unregulated gambling.”

On the flip side, both FanDuel and DraftKings insist that their DFS products are skill games, and therefore are not gambling. As Stutz noted, the DraftKings website states that “We are a U.S.-based skill games company and all of our contests are operated 100 percent legally under United States and Canadian law.” Stutz also cited an e-mail from a FanDuel spokesman claiming that its product “is a daily fantasy sports experience, classified as a skill game and NOT gambling.”
The problem is – at least in practical terms – the argument that DFS is a skill game and therefore not gambling is completely non sequitur because the two things are not mutually exclusive.

What is gambling?

Gambling requires three things:

  1. Consideration. There must be a wager of some value in order to win something of value.

  1. Prize. What you get when you win, whether of monetary value or something else.

  1. Chance. There must be at least enough variance that an unskilled or lesser skilled bettor can win said prize, at least in the short run.
Other definitions are sometimes too narrow to be fundamentally correct. This is particularly true of legal definitions which may vary in definitions of the term “chance” by trying to insert the presence (or a “preponderance”) of skill into the equation.

You see, poker is a game of skill, but it is also clearly gambling. Even if you were to argue that a skilled poker player is “investing” and not gambling, then it would also be unequivocally true that a lesser or unskilled player must be gambling, even if he thinks he is playing with an edge but really isn’t. What the player thinks he is doing is irrelevant.

In essence, the very existence of skilled poker players – playing with an edge and for a profit –depends on the presence of lesser skilled players willing to gamble at a disadvantage against them. You can’t have a skilled poker player without a compensating gambler. Therefore, though poker is a skill game, it is also most definitely a gambling game, regardless of a preponderance of skill.

Thus, in my view, legal interpretations which attempt to qualify poker as being either a game of skill or a game of chance by virtue of predominance are insufficient practically speaking, because such interpretations only identify what the winners (the “skillers”) are doing, and not what the losers (the “gamblers”) are doing.

Similarly, the existence of skilled DFS players – playing with an edge and for a profit – depends on the presence of lesser skilled players willing to gamble at a disadvantage against them, whether they know they are playing at a disadvantage or not.

DFS meets all of the requirements of the fundamental definition of gambling. DFS hasconsideration (the player wagers money), prize (the player wins cash prizes), and chance(enough variance that any schmuck can win – and no DFS operator will tell you otherwise). Therefore, like poker, DFS is a gambling game.
The presence of skill is irrelevant.

As an aside, particularly in a game like poker where the competition has gotten tougher over time, a player who might once have been able to play professionally but can no longer beat the rakemay now be gambling even if he still thinks he’s playing with an edge. And as I wrote last month, the same is likely to occur in DFS (see DFS and Lessons from Poker: How Bright is the Future? And for Whom?).

The preponderance by population argument: Gamblers vs. Skillers

This is what we know about poker: Simply by virtue of the rake, more money is lost than is won. We also either know or can infer that there are (and have been) far more losers than winners.

The same can be inferred about DFS. By virtue of the rake, there is more money being lost than won in DFS. And there are likely far more losers than winners, even if it’s possible two-thirds of DFSers think they are winning or break-even.

Now we’ve already established that in order for there to be skillers (winners), there must be gamblers (losers) willing to play at a disadvantage against them. We can also surmise that in DFS, there are likely many more gamblers (losers) by population than skillers (winners).
And if there are more people gambling than skilling, is it not reasonable to argue that DFS has a preponderance of gambling by population?

So why the “debate”?

By any practical definition, DFS is clearly a gambling product. So why are we having this “debate”?

It’s no mystery why FanDuel and DraftKings would argue that DFS is a skill game and therefore not gambling, even if the argument is non sequitur: It is in their best interest to do so.

The fact is that in the U.S., commonly recognized forms of commercial gambling are generally either regulated or banned. Currently, DFS is considered illegal in at least five states but unregulated and (apparently) non-illegal everywhere else – at least for the moment. As such, FanDuel and DraftKings have every incentive to encourage the idea that DFS is not a form of gambling in order to maintain the status quo.

Their argument is very not likely based on any moral conviction that their product does not constitute gambling, where the entire premise of DFS is to offer a sports betting product – and one that has a very particular bonus of being able to be offered in states where traditional sports betting is currently outlawed.
As a casual observer, I accept that DFS operators have every incentive to argue that DFS is a skill-based game, and is therefore not gambling. And I accept that they will continue to do so, even if – at least practically speaking – it’s a ridiculous argument.

Whether legislators will see it that way on a state-by-state basis is a different question. That said, I do suspect it inevitable that anything that looks this much like gambling is likely to drawincreasing attention from state legislators. And though interpretations may vary by state, I also suspect there’s a reasonable chance that a form of gambling that has such striking similarities to poker may be treated much the same way as a poker on a state-by-state basis.
 

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Simply put..... has to be some hellish kickbacks going on for this shit to fly.

Case closed!
 
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I'm just waiting for the day when some disgruntled loser hooks up with a lawyer and/or legislator to take these guys on. There is a lot of corporate money invested in this business, and for whatever reason the major sports leagues seem to have no problem jumping on the bandwagon with sponsorships and support. Maybe the government will try to step in and regulate, but I don't see dfs getting banned given the money already invested.
 

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I'm just waiting for the day when some disgruntled loser hooks up with a lawyer and/or legislator and take these guys on. There is a lot of corporate money invested in this business, and for whatever reason the major sports leagues seem to have no problem jumping on the bandwagon with sponsorships and support. Maybe the government will try to step in and regulate, but I don't see dfs getting banned given the money already invested.

That already happened a few years ago in the state of Illinois. They lost but they did force a few players to have to stop playing until the case was resolved.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede...ts-lawsuit-however-plaintiff-plans-to-appeal/

This covers most of the situation.
 

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I would love for fantasysports to be banned, because its 100% gambling when you place money in it.

Until regular sports betting can be implemented & on the same level as fantasy sports betting, ban those bitches!

But we all know since the leagues have the fantasy worlds backs & fronts, you know where it stands.
 

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I would love for fantasysports to be banned, because its 100% gambling when you place money in it.

Until regular sports betting can be implemented & on the same level as fantasy sports betting, ban those bitches!

But we all know since the leagues have the fantasy worlds backs & fronts, you know where it stands.

I don't understand this line of thinking. We can't have ours so they shouldn't get theirs either? I think in the urban community this is referred to as "hating".

But more importantly, I think banning DFS would be a step in the wrong direction for the chances of eventual legal status for sports gambling.
 

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I don't understand this line of thinking. We can't have ours so they shouldn't get theirs either? I think in the urban community this is referred to as "hating".

But more importantly, I think banning DFS would be a step in the wrong direction for the chances of eventual legal status for sports gambling.

+1, I'm a fantasy sports hater, but wouldn't want to see it banned. We have way too many laws in the USA, and politicians always run on making new laws. I want to see "no new laws" as a campaign slogan, and see many laws repealed.
 

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I don't understand this line of thinking. We can't have ours so they shouldn't get theirs either? I think in the urban community this is referred to as "hating".

But more importantly, I think banning DFS would be a step in the wrong direction for the chances of eventual legal status for sports gambling.




Yes I'm.hating, why should one group of sports fans/bettors have the luxury to be able to legally & regularsports bettors not??

I feel like a kid at Xmas time not getting a present or love while my siblings are getting presents & love from.my parents........

And until things change, I will continue to hate legalized fantasy sports.......not that I didnt hate fantasy sports for years before.
 
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Yes I'm.hating, why should one group of sports fans/bettors have the luxury to be able to legally & regularsports bettors not??

I feel like a kid at Xmas time not getting a present or love while my siblings are getting presents & love from.my parents........

And until things change, I will continue to hate legalized fantasy sports.......not that I didnt hate fantasy sports for years before.

It's not as though it's the fault of those who play fantasy sports. IMO, your hatred/anger is misdirected - the government is at fault here. Certainly both should be legalized, but perhaps daily fantasy can help make this happen if it becomes accepted by the mainstream.
 

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It's not as though it's the fault of those who play fantasy sports. IMO, your hatred/anger is misdirected - the government is at fault here. Certainly both should be legalized, but perhaps daily fantasy can help make this happen if it becomes accepted by the mainstream.

Bingo
 

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I would love for fantasysports to be banned, because its 100% gambling when you place money in it.

Until regular sports betting can be implemented & on the same level as fantasy sports betting, ban those bitches!

But we all know since the leagues have the fantasy worlds backs & fronts, you know where it stands.

Dude
 

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I would love for fantasysports to be banned, because its 100% gambling when you place money in it.

Until regular sports betting can be implemented & on the same level as fantasy sports betting, ban those bitches!

But we all know since the leagues have the fantasy worlds backs & fronts, you know where it stands.

The fact that they are letting this go on in most states legally is probably the most positive sign of the eventual legalization of sports betting in the last 100 years.

Just the fact that they are turning a blind eye to this is a sign that "maybe" they are coming to their senses.


The day DFS becomes illegal will be a very bad day for the people who want legal sports betting .

And if you are too dumb to realize that there is no use talking to you.

They are not going to wake up one day and say hey let's ban DFS but let's make sports betting legal instead.
But what might happen is they may wake up and say " you know this DFS thing has been legal for a while now and the world did not stop turning lets go ahead and make sports betting legal while we're at it.


I honestly can't even believe I have to explain it.
 

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It's not as though it's the fault of those who play fantasy sports. IMO, your hatred/anger is misdirected - the government is at fault here. Certainly both should be legalized, but perhaps daily fantasy can help make this happen if it becomes accepted by the mainstream.




I understand exactly what you're saying, & I do think fantasy sports being legalized & as big as they're getting help to legalize sports betting, but I'm convinced the mob won't allow it to be legalized.........the underground mob doesn't give a sh*t about fantasy sports, & want no part of it.

The destruction legalizing regular sports betting will bring is big to the underground mob......it will kill their income, & football season is a huge chunk of their income.

Of course there will be people answering me like Harry, because their huge fantasy sports fans, & I'm not at all.

Lmao@ NFL stars being spokesmen for fantasy sports......wtf is this world coming to?

I'm rambling now, but I still stand by my statements, legalize regular sports betting or ban fantasy sports :)

Once fantasy sports is banned, THEN we will see the ball rolling towards all of it being legalized, not the other way around like you guys stated, because there will be people going crazy, & politicians will listen I think.
 

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The fact that they are letting this go on in most states legally is probably the most positive sign of the eventual legalization of sports betting in the last 100 years.

Just the fact that they are turning a blind eye to this is a sign that "maybe" they are coming to their senses.


The day DFS becomes illegal will be a very bad day for the people who want legal sports betting .

And if you are too dumb to realize that there is no use talking to you.


I honestly can't even believe I have to explain it.



I see it the opposite way .......see above post.
 

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Basically what Computer Group is saying is he can't eat then nobody eats. Everyone starves. He just wants to be able to eat.
 

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