Without All the Political BS ... Someone Please explain why a couple of those Gun Bills didn't get passed ??

Betallsports · Jun 21, 2016

I don't want to hear the Bull Shit excuse .... Rep. vs. Dem crap

How ... Why can they NOT pass a Bill that says if you are on the No-Fly list or terrorist watchlist , you CAN'T buy a Gun ....
Give me reasons ?

It makes me Sick to be an American !

and I'm pro Gun ...

very Sad living in a Country like this

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

The No Fly List isn't as wonderful as people make it out to be.

Betallsports · Jun 21, 2016

Mantis Toboggan said:
The No Fly List isn't as wonderful as people make it out to be.

Ok, what about being on the terrorist watchlist ?

Should they be allowed to buy a Gun ?

Just trying to make sense of all this

JohnnyMac · Jun 21, 2016

Good questions, BAS. I'll wait for the answers with you.

tar_heel_in_sc · Jun 21, 2016

Mantis Toboggan said:
The No Fly List isn't as wonderful as people make it out to be.

Yep. There have been false positives (babies being pulled off planes for being on it, etc)

Also, there is no due process involved with these lists. You are not notified if you are on it. They won't tell you why you are on it. There is no way to clear yourself to get off the list unless they arbitrarily decide to remove you.

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

Betallsports said:
Ok, what about being on the terrorist watchlist ?

Should they be allowed to buy a Gun ?

Just trying to make sense of all this

I mean, ideally, no, they shouldn't. The issue is you're taking away someone's rights without giving them due process. Not to mention, there's the issue of not really being able to find out why you ended up on the No Fly List or any clear way to get yourself off the list if you feel as though you don't belong on it. I mean you've got examples of toddlers ending up on the No Fly List. It's one of those ideas that's better in theory than in reality.

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

JohnnyMac said:
Good questions, BAS. I'll wait for the answers with you.

Have you ever, even once, added something of substance to a discussion?

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

tar_heel_in_sc said:
Yep. There have been false positives (babies being pulled off planes for being on it, etc)

Also, there is no due process involved with these lists. You are not notified if you are on it. They won't tell you why you are on it. There is no way to clear yourself to get off the list unless they arbitrarily decide to remove you.

Beat me to it. Wish I saw this before typing essentially the same thing.

Betallsports · Jun 21, 2016

tar_heel_in_sc said:
Yep. There have been false positives (babies being pulled off planes for being on it, etc)

Also, there is no due process involved with these lists. You are not notified if you are on it. They won't tell you why you are on it. There is no way to clear yourself to get off the list unless they arbitrarily decide to remove you.

Well then maybe the Gov. needs to Fix that problem.

but I'm not worried about a Baby buying a gun. So why not start working on fixing it.

in the mean time, No Guns for someone that's on the list..

Again, I'm Pro Gun .... But I rather not take the chance some Fuking Nut that's on a possible terrorist list can go out and Buy a Gun.

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

Betallsports said:
Well then maybe the Gov. needs to Fix that problem.

but I'm not worried about a Baby buying a gun. So why not start working on fixing it.

in the mean time, No Guns for someone that's on the list..

Again, I'm Pro Gun .... But I rather not take the chance some Fuking Nut that's on a possible terrorist list can go out and Buy a Gun.

Ya, I think fixing the No Fly List would be ideal. If you can make it so the list allows due process and has more transparency, I think any rational person would be in favor it being used for gun purchases as well.

JohnnyMac · Jun 21, 2016

Mantis Toboggan said:
I mean, ideally, no, they shouldn't. The issue is you're taking away someone's rights without giving them due process. Not to mention, there's the issue of not really being able to find out why you ended up on the No Fly List or any clear way to get yourself off the list if you feel as though you don't belong on it. I mean you've got examples of toddlers ending up on the No Fly List. It's one of those ideas that's better in theory than in reality.

"Due Process" is your best answer? So, the Republicans in the Senate are standing up for "due process" and prioritizing "due process" over stopping suspected terrorists from buying guns?

Rights are taken away in society without due process all the time. Cops pat-down people, search cars and houses, and generally ignore the Fourth Amendment all day every day in the name of safety. I think stopping a suspected terrorist from buying a gun temporarily until he proves he is not a terrorists is something society and the NRA should accept in these times.

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

JohnnyMac said:
"Due Process" is your best answer? So, the Republicans in the Senate are standing up for "due process" and prioritizing "due process" over stopping suspected terrorists from buying guns?

Rights are taken away in society without due process all the time. Cops pat-down people, search cars and houses, and generally ignore the Fourth Amendment all day every day in the name of safety. I think stopping a suspected terrorist from buying a gun temporarily until he proves he is not a terrorists is something society and the NRA should accept in these times.

Now I understand why you have such difficulty making substantive posts.

The issue with the bold is that there is no method to find out why you are on the list and then remove yourself from the list. You act as though it's crazy for me to suggest the list should improve. Why? Why shouldn't we strive for better?

By the way, the Senate Republicans aren't defending due process. I am. They're defending the gun lobby and gun owners that live in constant fear that any "infringement" on gun ownership will one day end up with them losing their guns. I am neither a gun owner nor a part of the gun lobby.

Redagger029 · Jun 21, 2016

Betallsports said:
Why can they NOT pass a Bill that says if you are on the No-Fly list or terrorist watchlist , you CAN'T buy a Gun ....

Connect the dots for God Sakes!! It will save lives.

tar_heel_in_sc · Jun 21, 2016

Betallsports said:
Well then maybe the Gov. needs to Fix that problem.

but I'm not worried about a Baby buying a gun. So why not start working on fixing it.

in the mean time, No Guns for someone that's on the list..

Again, I'm Pro Gun .... But I rather not take the chance some Fuking Nut that's on a possible terrorist list can go out and Buy a Gun.

That all "sounds" good. The problem is, the current administration is the most corrupt collection of filth in the history of the USA IMO. They have openly stated that white Christian males, conservatives, and veterans are the "biggest terrorist threats", not muslims. We have the terrorist in chief calling for the transcripts of 911 and Orlando changed to fit his agenda, etc. The bottom line is, they have too much power as it is.

Sorry to pollute your thread with politics, but it's almost impossible not to.

JohnnyMac · Jun 21, 2016

Mantis Toboggan said:
Now I understand why you have such difficulty making substantive posts.

The issue with the bold is that there is no method to find out why you are on the list and then remove yourself from the list. You act as though it's crazy for me to suggest the list should improve. Why? Why shouldn't we strive for better?

By the way, the Senate Republicans aren't defending due process. I am. They're defending the gun lobby and gun owners that live in constant fear that any "infringement" on gun ownership will one day end up with them losing their guns. I am neither a gun owner nor a part of the gun lobby.

Why do you feel the need to personally attack other posters?

Let's strive for better AFTER we stop suspected terrorists from buying guns.

StevieRay · Jun 21, 2016

Follow the money

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

JohnnyMac said:
Why do you feel the need to personally attack other posters?

Let's strive for better AFTER we stop suspected terrorists from buying guns.

Your posting style just rubs me the wrong way. Sorry, pal.

Why can't we make the list better now so that we can legally stop terrorists from buying guns? I'm not sure why you feel as though it's a valid argument to say "well we don't always get the benefit of the Fourth Amendment so let's give up the Fifth Amendment as well".

bobbyjones2 · Jun 21, 2016

Betallsports said:
I don't want to hear the Bull Shit excuse .... Rep. vs. Dem crap

How ... Why can they NOT pass a Bill that says if you are on the No-Fly list or terrorist watchlist , you CAN'T buy a Gun ....
Give me reasons ?

It makes me Sick to be an American !

and I'm pro Gun ...

very Sad living in a Country like this

Lobbyists run the country.

JohnnyMac · Jun 21, 2016

Mantis Toboggan said:
Your posting style just rubs me the wrong way. Sorry, pal.

Why can't we make the list better now so that we can legally stop terrorists from buying guns? I'm not sure why you feel as though it's a valid argument to say "well we don't always get the benefit of the Fourth Amendment so let's give up the Fifth Amendment as well".

Not every citizen would give up their due process rights or their 2nd Amendment rights; just people who our government has deemed to have done enough to be on a terrorist watch list. Why are you standing up for people on the terrorist watch list?

MantisToboggan · Jun 21, 2016

JohnnyMac said:
Not every citizen would give up their due process rights or their 2nd Amendment rights; just people who our government has deemed to have done enough to be on a terrorist watch list. Why are you standing up for people on the terrorist watch list?

Because not everyone on the watch list is a terrorist. The people that are innocent don't even have the benefit of being notified they are on the list (or get an explanation of why they are on the list) and have no method to get off the list. That's insane.