Questions from a 100% horse racing noob

jersey_dude · Jun 26, 2016

I know nothing about horse racing, but what I read about it was that it's more easy to make money there like in betting on sports teams, and a lot more pro bettors are living from betting on horses than from betting on team sports (I'm talking about world wide situation.)

Maybe all this is not true... but being a bettor for about 20 years just on teams sports, for a long time I'm intrigued to find out more about racing, and to try betting it.

About 8-10 years ago I have spent some time looking around online to find info about services (touts) which are into US horse racing, and ebooks that can be used for US horse racing.

I was surprised to found that there are a truckload of services, ebooks, systems just for horse racing, but that's absolutely nothing there which can be used by US residents!
All of these can be used just outside the US, and most of them are concentrated to the UK (but the UK services and systems you can use for any races in other countries too, except the US).

As I know, in a lots of US states it's legal to bet on horse races, but you can do it just at racetracks.
In some states you can do it legally online too, like here in NJ.

My question would be:
Does anyone know about good US horse racing services, ebooks and systems (of course which can be used for US races!)?

... Any recommendation on how to dip my toes in horse racing betting, living here in NJ?

Thanks in advance!

G.MONEY · Jun 26, 2016

Forget touts, study a bit buy a form, watch races and keep notes....It takes time but it is fun doing it..There are some great guys here that share everyday

dd_1_pl_4_u_ · Jun 26, 2016

I agree with G. Money forget touts

rpark · Jun 28, 2016

Very hard to validate records of touts. I found one for California Tracks years go that was making money but they limited # of members and fee was in the thousands.

I don't bet into mutual pools and was using Betfair exchange till they left Canada in December. Betfair is setting up a horse racing exchange in NJ. I'm happy to pay 7-9% takeout for set odds but I think it hard to beat 15% takeout in a parmutuel pool with fluctuating odds.

It takes many years to learn to handicap a horse race.

jersey_dude · Jun 28, 2016

Thanks guys.
No e-books, betting systems which you recommend?

As I told you, I have no idea about horse racing, so I wouldn't even know were to begin handicapping if I would be buying forms.
Need to read some good sh.it about the basics of race handicapping before anything else.

Prof_Factor · Jun 28, 2016

Here's a couple links that should supply ions of input.

http://www.horse-races.net/

http://www.horse-races.net/library/links-pastperformances.htm

Almost all horse racing service sites have basic help/learning pages.
You can also Google "race handicapping" and get a phone book of handicapping tips.
YouTube has tons too.

I haven't read a horse racing book in decades, so can't recommend any books.
Don't take anything you learn as the gospel. You'll learn weight of angles as you apply them in practice.
I don't use any services, so I can't help with that either.
Eventually you'll mute the sound on all commentators and callers when you're watching races ...... then you've arrived. LOL
Good luck in your quest.

jersey_dude · Jun 30, 2016

Thanks Prof!

Prof_Factor · Jul 1, 2016

Here's a link for book recommendations.
http://www.equinometry.com/2011/11/25/6-horse-racing-books-horseplayer-read/

It has comments/recommends from visitors you might find helpful.
The guy has a picture of his bookshelf.
I noticed 2 books I've read:

Betting Thoroughbreds for the 21st Century by Steve Davidowitz
https://www.amazon.com/Betting-Thoroughbreds-21st-Century-Professionals/dp/1932910700

I think it's good read and covers all facets of handicapping. If I had to recommend 1 book, it would be this one.

Another book on his shelf that I've read and some recommend is "Beyer on Speed":
https://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Speed-Strategies-Racetrack-Betting/dp/0618871721/

It's good for learning how Beyer speed figures are made. Can't say I got much out of it other than the fact it inspired the creation of my current speed figure system.

Another book on the shelf is "Modern Pace Handicapping":
https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Pace-Handicapping-Revised-Brohamer/dp/0964849372

I read the original version called "Sartin Methodology", and even attended a free seminar by the author's associate experts. Lt1 would recommend it I'm sure. To be fair, I haven't read the Modern version. I was so unimpressed with the original I never gave the new version a look. I even walked-out of the seminar long before it was over. What happened was the expert was handicapping that afternoon's race card when someone asked how the system would have done with the last race of the previous day, won by an 80-1 shot.The expert shrugged and said, "You can't get those." .......... are you friggin' kidding me?! Somebody did!That's when I walked. I didn't want to be listening to anyone that thinks you can't hit 80-1 shots.

Lt1 · Jul 1, 2016

The Sartin Methodology requires a lot of time and hard work. They have their own website where one can join for free and be able to browse thru the various areas. The most important thing is there are no rules just guidelines. It isn't a black box you must do the work in order to succeed. They have a current computer program called RDSS which I use daily. There are also those who follow the match up procedure established by the late great Jim The Hat Bradshaw. He authored 2 books on the subject. When Doc Sartin was alive he published a quarterly magazine called the Follow Up which contained all needed to use the methodology. All copies f the FU are available on the web site to read for free once you join the group. Prof I never heard any teacher say that Heck the programs were designed to get double digit winners although 80-1 shots are rare. I've hit several 50-1 shots but they are aslo rare.

Prof_Factor · Jul 1, 2016

To clarify, Lt1, the quote was "You can't get those." Those were exactly his words. Not referencing any system. I'm referring to the fact the guy told us we will not be able to land 80-1 shots ..... period. Using any system. That is hogwash. If he was defeated enough to conclude this then I didn't want to hear anything else he had to say. I should be able to deduce why/how any horse won any race at any price. Future signs repeat.
80-1 shots are very gettable.

Lt1 · Jul 1, 2016

Funny thing my best friend who joined the same time I did just hit a 51-1 shot at Tampa. I'll will agree some 80-1 shots can be had but most are just horses that didn't figure. I wouldn't want anyone to think those kind of long shots happen everyday. And the most important thing is to be able to trust your work and actually bet it. As the Hat use to say a longshot is just a favorite nobody bets. I wish I knew that was who made that statement. It might have been a main stream guest speaker such as Jim Quinn.

Prof_Factor · Jul 1, 2016

No, you're right, good point .... those type of winners don't happen everyday.

escrow · Jul 1, 2016

This is some great conversation!
Prof, you, Lt, G and Gravy have such depth of experience, there are lots of guys here that would love to benefit from your have handicapping insight. I would love to see the RX evolve to approach the horse racing resources and forum contributors that approach paceadvantage.com, for instance. We're almost there for the Grade 1 stakes races. I think that pa.com's links to get most free PP's would be a huge addition, if possible to the RX Horse Racing arsenal. Just saying.....I love this game!

Gravy · Jul 1, 2016

Good topic here and will throw my thoughts here.Myself I was taught how to cap by a good friend of mine who created systems for certain tracks that did well and I remember what he taught me and just added to it.This might sound selfish but I wouldnt really want to teach anybody what I learned because it would be greek to you and I dont have patience to teach as there are alot of things to look for in a dirt race or Turf Race.I have been to past RX bashes and have helped people win money and even gave Pete Rose a winner or 2 as Viejo Dinosaur can vouch for this.I dont have the time like I used to but if I get a bug I will cap a few races.For me I like to play a couple of tracks as I like Santa Anita, Saratoga and Keeneland since they went back to dirt and certain tracks like Woodbine I stay away as I never have luck betting that track.If anybody wants to PM fell free and I will answer

KingEleven · Jul 1, 2016

I have a good friend that is big into the ponies, in fact he doesn't wager on sports anymore. I never bothered to ask him about it, cause sports seems easier to me and you guys are pretty much confirming that.

Gravy · Jul 1, 2016

KingEleven said:
I have a good friend that is big into the ponies, in fact he doesn't wager on sports anymore. I never bothered to ask him about it, cause sports seems easier to me and you guys are pretty much confirming that.

King,Betting on horses isn't for everybody if you feel that you do better betting on sports than just do that and maybe dip your toes in the water betting on the ponies.Ask you buddy if he can give you a few pointers on the topic some do some dont but dont be afraid to ask questions if he does.

timmy2toes · Apr 30, 2018

Hi all,
I'm new to the states from AUS. Over here for work and really love a punt on the horses.
One thing that I'm really struggling to get my head around is the morning line that is created. Back in Aus we have whats called fixed odds betting, where we can back a horse at a price in the morning and the odds you've backed it at doesn't change. Is the anybody on this forum that could help me out as i don't wish to stop beating now i'm in the states!

HacheMan · Apr 30, 2018

timmy2toes said:
Hi all,
I'm new to the states from AUS. Over here for work and really love a punt on the horses.
One thing that I'm really struggling to get my head around is the morning line that is created. Back in Aus we have whats called fixed odds betting, where we can back a horse at a price in the morning and the odds you've backed it at doesn't change. Is the anybody on this forum that could help me out as i don't wish to stop beating now i'm in the states!

Welcome aboard Timmy

timmy2toes · Apr 30, 2018

Thanks hache man! So do u have any horses for me to follow? Or a special trainer? In Oz we have D.Weir and C.Waller(winxs trainer)

skoda · May 1, 2018

I'm a harness player @ "Bet America"

"BA" has a $400 1st time Deposit bonus, good timing with Derby days away. Should use my Dad's system which is really simple

1) Date last race

2) up/down in class

3) closing time.... last 1/4 mile

^^^ Maybe I'll start ^^^

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