Propswap, Which Allows Sports Bettors To Sell Existing Tickets, To Expand Outside Of Nevada

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hacheman@therx.com
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Sports Betting Outside Of Nevada? PropSwap Will Soon Sell Existing Tickets In Four New States
Eric Ramsey
August 18, 2017

PropSwap, an online exchange service for sports betting slips, is spreading its wings beyond its Nevada nest and expanding into four new states.

PropSwap, you say?

Launched in 2015, PropSwap is a marketplace for live, active betting tickets.
Bettors who are stuck with unfavorable tickets can hedge their bets by selling the slips on PropSwap’s exchange. Buyers who missed a big line can lock in a better price than they might be able to find at the time.
For example, say a bettor places a futures wager on the Las Vegas Goats at 100/1. The Goats shock the world and win their first few games, and the price slips to 25/1. The bettor can list their slip on PropSwap at, say, a price equal to a 50/1 payout, both hedging their bet and providing an opportunity for buyers that would not otherwise be available.
“I post a slip for sale, a buyer writes them a check, the seller is happy — they don’t have to be sweating the game Sunday, and they get a nice chunk of change,” co-founder Luke Pergande said in an interview with the Las Vegas ***************.

The idea came to life following a 2013 trip to Las Vegas in which Pergande placed a futures futures wager at 50/1. He explained the rest of the story to Legal Sports Report:

They went 7-1 to start the season and the odds dropped to 15/1. I called my now business partner (Ian Epstein) who worked for CG Technology at the time, and asked where can I sell this ticket in Vegas. He said nowhere. It seemed like a gap in the market so we set out trying to solve it.

PropSwap opened for business less than two years later in August 2015.

How it works

The functionality has grown over the past two years, and more streamlining is on deck, according to the founders. Here’s how it currently works:

A bettor in Nevada places a bet in a brick-and-mortar sportsbook.
The seller uploads a photo of the betting slip to PropSwap’s client, enters the details, and sets the sale price.
PropSwap verifies the validity of the ticket and lists it on the marketplace.
A buyer purchases the slip with a credit or debit card.
The seller mails the slip to PropSwap.
PropSwap delivers the slip to the buyer via certified mail.
The buyer redeems the slip with the sportsbook, either in person or via mail.
In order to insure the transaction, PropSwap requires credit card information from the seller. It takes a 10 percent commission from the final price, so there’s no up-front fee for either party.
PropSwap touts this process with a number of testimonials on its site, like this one:

WIN! – Steve from San Francisco sold his GSW Futures for $8,000 (collect of $10,500) when they were up 3-1 against the Cleveland Cavaliers. Greg then flew to the Bahamas that day and let the rest of us watch Curry & Co. collapse. True story.

Expanding to more states

For the first two years of its operation, PropSwap was a Nevada-only product.

On September 1, the concept is rolling out to four more states:

Massachusetts
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
Connecticut

While all four states have gambling establishments within their borders, single-game wagering is still illegal in all of them. New Jersey has passed a law to legalize sports betting, but that effort is pending an appeal in the US Supreme Court. Connecticut just passed legislation to regulate it last month, and it’s encouraging to see regulators from the other states willing to let PropSwap operate, too. And it makes sense from a legal standpoint.

Since buyers are receiving physical tickets, they’re not betting on sports, by definition. The ticket is simple property, and it falls under the same laws as any other piece of paper. This piece of paper, though, may or may not have significant value depending on the outcome of the bet that was placed back in Nevada.
PropSwap’s founders met with regulators in each state to review the legal landscape prior to making the move.

Operating within regulators’ recommendations

Because it is not a gaming entity, PropSwap is not regulated by the Nevada Gaming Commission. Still, it takes due care as it operates around the perimeter of gaming.

When it was only serving the Nevada sports betting market, PropSwap facilitated the actual payout of the ticket itself. While that is still technically legal, the NGC advised that it would prefer to see that changed. So it was. The buyer is now fully responsible for redeeming the tickets, either in person or through a mail exchange with the sportsbook.

By treading carefully, PropSwap seems to be making progress. When it launched, sellers had to conduct transactions in person at a terminal inside a sports bar in Las Vegas. The seller also had to provide the physical ticket before the marketplace would list it.
With the expansion, the process now operates electronically and in real time. The seller’s credit card is pre-authorized when a ticket sells, guaranteeing the transaction and expediting the exchange. Sellers have seven days to submit the ticket to PropSwap if it sells.
The real-time functionality has an additional benefit that the company thinks will be key to its growth. In addition to futures slips, bettors can now list tickets for straight bets, and buyers have the ability to make purchases both prior to and during the game.

It’s tough to find sellers


Talking bettors into giving up their tickets is one of PropSwap’s biggest obstacles. Many gamblers would rather let a bad bet ride than take a buyout up front. Pergande and co-founder Ian Epstein elaborated on the issue:

Convincing bettors to sell their ticket has been a much larger challenge than we had initially thought. They see the ‘Collect’ amount on their ticket, and won’t accept anything less than that. The psychology theory behind it is called ‘Loss Aversion’. People don’t want to be the guy who sold their ticket too early.

PropSwap’s expansion to the northeast could be a boon for potential sellers, though. Whereas they were previously limited to the prices fellow-Nevadans were willing to pay, the market is now open to thirsty would-be sports bettors from states in which options are limited. There should be a significant increase in the margins at which sellers are able to shed their tickets.
Gearing up for even more?

The prospect for out-of-state expansion led the company to broadcast a $6 million valuation in 2016. This year, it appears to be gearing for a big push to help drive its growth.

PropSwap has reached out to potential investors, LSR has learned, trying to raise up to $500,000 under that valuation. It refers to the fundraising as ‘building a moat’ in preparation for the competition it expects to enter its neighborhood.

“As we grow,” Pergande said, “the plan is for all visitors that come to Las Vegas to make bets with PropSwap in mind, knowing it doesn’t need to win in order to make a profit, it just needs to improve.”
Like any good letter to investors, this one contained a coyly worded caution in its close, too. If the expansion goes as planned, PropSwap says it may feel justified in increasing its valuation.
 

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Hey you could sell your losing tickets to a big winner to even out income for tax purposes...
 

hacheman@therx.com
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A bettor in Nevada places a bet in a brick-and-mortar sportsbook.



Since buyers are receiving physical tickets, they’re not betting on sports, by definition. The ticket is simple property, and it falls under the same laws as any other piece of paper.

Why does it have to be from a brick & mortar casino?

Why can't it be purchased online since the law states buying the piece of paper (the betting ticket) is legal???

If that's the case, it shouldn't matter if it's a ticket (piece of paper) from a physical casino or an online book.
 
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Why does it have to be from a brick & mortar casino?

Why can't it be purchased online since the law states buying the piece of paper (the betting ticket) is legal???

If that's the case, it shouldn't matter if it's a ticket (piece of paper) from a physical casino or an online book.

a physical ticket would be able to be passed off, how would they pass it along to the next guy if the wager was done online ?
 

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How it works

The buyer redeems the slip with the sportsbook, either in person or via mail.


I have never mailed a ticket in before, but if we can, why would we need proswap? what is the process for mailing in tickets?
 

hacheman@therx.com
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a physical ticket would be able to be passed off, how would they pass it along to the next guy if the wager was done online ?



I guess what I was thinking was bigger things.

If legalization doesn't happen soon, wouldn't this be an alternative way to start offering it & get away with it?

A site, for example, shows pics of multiple tickets for both sides of a game, and offers it for sale to buyers /bettors.
It would virtually be the same as bettors placing them themselves. They merely choose which ticket/side to buy.

And to ensure that the site/company isn't stuck with unsold tickets, whats to stop the site from posting the same images of the originals they've bought, and create them after the fact/after purchases?
Honestly they don't have to be purchasing tickets to begin with. It they are simply a book who takes bets by posting images as wagers are accepted.

Really wouldn't be any different than getting an acquaintance to make some plays for you while in Vegas & the only drawback is you have to take the tickets directly to the physical place to collect...
 

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I have never mailed a ticket in before, but if we can, why would we need proswap? what is the process for mailing in tickets?

I just explored the site and I completely misunderstood the concept of proswap lol now it makes sense.
 
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I guess what I was thinking was bigger things.

If legalization doesn't happen soon, wouldn't this be an alternative way to start offering it & get away with it?

A site, for example, shows pics of multiple tickets for both sides of a game, and offers it for sale to buyers /bettors.
It would virtually be the same as bettors placing them themselves. They merely choose which ticket/side to buy.

And to ensure that the site/company isn't stuck with unsold tickets, whats to stop the site from posting the same images of the originals they've bought, and create them after the fact/after purchases?
Honestly they don't have to be purchasing tickets to begin with. It they are simply a book who takes bets by posting images as wagers are accepted.

Really wouldn't be any different than getting an acquaintance to make some plays for you while in Vegas & the only drawback is you have to take the tickets directly to the physical place to collect...

I don't think it's any different than if you and I go buy a bunch of tickets for a few guys/friends

You probably could go make a 100 future wagers, and if after some are doing great, Hedge those wagers the same way this place is. with "Friends" of course. lol
 

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PropSwap: a company looking to hedge your bet
David Purdum
11/8/17

It was around 10 a.m. PT the morning of Super Bowl LI in Las Vegas, and a young patron was milling around the Caesars Palace sportsbook, letting other bettors know exactly what he was holding: a handful of futures tickets on the Atlanta Falcons, potentially worth $200,000.

In his mid-20s and from California, the bettor wasn't a Falcons fan, but he was emotionally attached to the team through his betting slips. At several different points during the 2016 regular season, he had made the trip from San Diego to Nevada to put money on the Falcons to win Super Bowl LI. In total, he had around $10,000 at risk. He had visions of putting any winnings toward a new house for his parents.

Two young Las Vegas entrepreneurs, Ian Epstein and Luke Pergande, were also at Caesars Palace that morning. They run PropSwap, an online secondary market for sports bets, where customers can buy or sell live wagers before an event takes place -- like, for example, a bunch of futures bets on the Falcons to win the Super Bowl.

PropSwap launched in Nevada in 2015. It's a small, unregulated startup. Both Pergande and Epstein still dabble in occasional side gigs while also looking ahead toward a future that may include expanded legal sports betting in the U.S. For now, though, it continues to be a learning experience for the 28-year-old founders and almost a case study on the thinking of American sports bettors, who have big wagers on the line.

Epstein and Pergande were introduced to the Falcons bettor, explained their business and offered $75,000 for his betting slips on the Falcons. The bettor politely declined.

Brokering the sale of the Falcons bets, potentially worth $200,000, would have been by far the largest transaction in PropSwap history. Pergande and Epstein didn't want to give up and discussed what to do over lunch at In-N-Out Burger across the street. Pergande texted the bettor some of the things he could buy for $75,000, including "a brand new Mercedes for your parents."

They drove home, got the company checkbook and headed back to Caesars Palace. Shortly after they arrived, they physically handed the Falcons bettor a check for $75,000.

He looked at Pergande and Epstein and replied, "Nope. The Falcons are going to win. I'm not going to hedge at all," before tearing up the check.

"[He did it] nicely," Pergande recalled, "but, still, it amazed me. 'It's Tom Brady. Why aren't you scared?'"

We all know the story by now: Atlanta squandered a 28-3 lead and lost to the Patriots 34-28 in overtime. PropSwap didn't hear back from the Falcons bettor after the game.

"Americans' greed," Pergande said, "compared to European greed is off the charts, specifically in sports betting. We're just as risk-adverse in trading stocks and real estate. But we're so risk-seeking in American sports betting. And I just don't get it."

Epstein and Pergande, both originally from Chicago, met as freshmen at the University of Arizona. They didn't start talking business, though, until they were both overseas and ran into each other at the Venetian in Macau. Epstein eventually went to work for Las Vegas sportsbook operator CG Technology; Pergande spent 3½ years in finance, working for Bloomberg in San Francisco.

In 2013, Pergande went to Las Vegas for Labor Day. During his trip, he bet $100 on New Orleans Saints to win the Super Bowl at 50-1 odds. The Saints got off to a 7-1 start to the season, and their odds plummeted to 15-1.

"I called Ian, because I knew he worked in sports betting, and asked where I could sell this ticket for a profit," Pergande recalled. "He said nowhere." Just like that, the idea from PropSwap was born.

Pergande and Epstein reached out to 15 different lawyers for advice on their plans. None of the first 14 attorneys thought the idea would work. Their 15th email went to Dan Reaser, a Nevada attorney, who formerly served as general counsel for the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

"[Reaser] said he would take the case and meeting with gaming control," Pergande said. "He did, and here we are."

PropSwap shares a lot of similarities with other online markets, like StubHub and eBay. Here's how it works: Sellers put a bet ticket up for sale, by providing a credit card, the asking price and the potential payout of the betting tickets. Buyers make purchases with a credit card and, if the bet wins, PropSwap sends the actual betting slip through certified mail.

Buyers are responsible for cashing the ticket. Sellers are paid with check or through an online payment processor. And Prop Swap takes a 10 percent commission from brokering the transaction, although the fee often is less for larger transactions.

In early November, there currently are 34 tickets for sale on PropSwap. The most expensive is a ticket on Stanford running back Bryce Love to win the Heisman Trophy at 80-1. Potentially worth $40,500, the bet, which was placed in mid-September at the Westgate SuperBook, was for sale for $8,999 on Nov. 6. Love's odds to win the Heisman at the Westgate, at the same time, were 10-1.

There are much cheaper offerings as well, including a ticket on the Philadelphia 76ers to win the NBA title listed for $17, with a potential payout of $760.

The largest PropSwap transaction in company history came during the 2017 World Series. With the Houston Astros leading the Los Angeles Dodgers 2-1, a ticket on the Astros sold for $13,800. The buyer collected $31,000 with Houston's win in Game 7.

Neither Pergande nor Epstein bets on sports anymore; they don't want any appearance of a conflict of interest or wrongdoing. They also don't accept sales of bets made with offshore sportsbooks, although they get near weekly inquiries about doing so. They want to stay in the good graces of regulators and position themselves for the future.

With their supply of betting tickets restricted to Nevada sportsbooks, growth has been slow the first three years. They haven't had much luck convincing old-school Las Vegas bookmakers that their service could potentially be an asset, comparable to the early cash-out options available with bookmakers in the United Kingdom. But Pergande and Epstein aren't quitting and instead are expanding into other states.

This summer, they met with officials in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. While they didn't receive explicit authorization, they did come away feeling comfortable enough to begin operating in those four additional states. They've also talked with compliance firms in New York and started crafting policies in an attempt to get ahead of any regulatory action in the future.

"The same reason PropSwap is legal in Nevada is the same reason it's legal in these other states," said Reaser, director of Fennemore Craig, P.C., who represented PropSwap in some of the meetings with the new states. "The PropSwap transaction relates to what the holder of the sportsbook ticket wants to do with that piece of paper, which is now really a contract, between the player and the book. It is not the business of taking wagers to facilitate someone buying or selling that contract."

"It's much like the secondary market that some financial institutions engage in when they decide to sell loans," Reaser added. "That's one of the comparisons I made to the regulators."

PropSwap opened in those four states on Sept. 1, right before football season. Over the last two months, the majority of their sales have come from those states, the company said.

"Every day, we probably average six or seven new users, per day," Pergande said. "And I would say, five of every six comes from outside of Nevada."

PropSwap is closely monitoring the debate over expanding legal sports betting in the U.S. In December, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments on a case that could result in removal of the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992 (PASPA), the federal ban on sports betting. A dozen states have introduced sports betting legislation this year, with Connecticut, Mississippi and Pennsylvania among the states ready to move quickly if PASPA is struck down.

"The more sports betting tickets floating around the country, the better for us," Epstein said.
 

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Would like to know more circumstances about that guy who turned down the check. Was he a professional sports bettor. What was his financial situation. How much was $65,000 worth to him. He would have needed almost $100,000 to net $65,000 if he were to hedge on the Pats money line. I'm sure he was laughing his ass off most the game as he dreamed of a $190,000 score. If I'm in his situation I'm going to find a way to hedge. I would do whatever I had to do. Take out a second mortgage on my house. Find someone to put up the money. There is no way risking $10,000 sitting in front of that kind of score that I'm not locking up at least a $50k profit.
 

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Ok...so im in florida at 10:00 Sunday morning and see what consider a great “future: bet...the RAMS -10.5...taking place 5 hrs in the future. I️ call my friend in vegas have him purchase the ticket sell it to me but thats not betting its just me buying a piece of paper from him. Cool
 

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