How do you put Trevor Hoffman in the Hall of Fame after passing on Lee Smith ?

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[h=2]Driving Hoffman's candidacy is the fact that he registered 601 saves in his career[/h]
Trevor Hoffman's going to be a Hall of Famer, likely as soon as this year. Per Ryan Thibodaux's public ballot tracker, Hoffman right now is polling at 78 percent, which is of course clear of the 75 percent needed for election. Even if he loses ground on the ballots not publicly released, he's at worst in position to go in on the 2019 ballot.


Driving Hoffman's candidacy is of course the fact that he registered 601 saves in his career. For a time, he was the only closer to reach such a lofty tally until the peerless Mariano Rivera caught him and passed him. Still, Hoffman's case is a puzzling one once you drill down beyond the not-terribly-illuminating saves count.
As noted in Thursday's Hall of Fame piece on Billy Wagner, Hoffman will really be the first modern closer -- i.e., one who generally pitches no more than one inning and whose usage flows from the boundaries of the save rule -- to go in the Hall. The mythology of the closer, the idea that these guys are uniquely suited to pitch the ninth inning on the level of their inner workings, is as silly as it sounds. A lot of closers are failed starters, and we've seen time and again in recent years that any number of guys can step in and handle the final three outs. The idea is to be a good pitcher. The rest is myth-making. Stated another way, you don't reach the majors -- you're weeded out long before you reach the highest level of baseball in the world -- if you wilt under pressure. Saves totals, however, have somehow morphed into a stand-in indicator of that very basic reality.


So we have Hoffman, a good pitcher whose 601 saves gives him what appears to be the radiance of greatness. The thing, though, is we've already in some ways appraised Hoffman's case and found it wanting. The BBWAA did that when they decided Lee Smith wasn't worthy of the Hall of Fame.


In 15 years on the ballot, only once did Smith top 50 percent. That's significant support, but he never threatened election. Now consider the similarities of the two pitchers in question:



StatSmithHoffman
Innings
1,289 1/3
1,089 1/3
ERA+
132
141
K%
23.2
25.8
Saves
478
601
Save %
82.3
88.8
Save opps
581
677
WAR29.428.0
JAWS
25.4
24.0

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As you can see, Hoffman has the edge in ERA+, K%, saves, and save percentage. Smith, meantime, leads in innings, WAR, and JAWS, which is Jay Jaffe's system that compares a candidate to the existing Hall standards for his position/role by blending a player's career WAR with the WAR from his peak seasons. The limited precision of both notwithstanding, WAR and JAWS suggest that Smith had the better career. Hoffman's narrow edge in K% is largely a function of era, and you'll note that he had almost 100 more save opportunities than Smith did. It's also worth pointing out some other differences in how these two pitchers were used:



  • Smith made 377 multi-inning relief appearances in his career. Hoffman made 152.
  • Smith entered the game with runners on base 318 times in his career. Hoffman did so just 188 times.
  • Stated another way, Smith in his career inherited 510 base-runners, whereas Hoffman inherited 346.
  • Eleven times in his career, Smith most commonly entered the game before the ninth inning. Just three times was this the case for Hoffman.
There's not doubt that Hoffman's success at converting save opportunities is a strong part of his case, but he worked a much higher percentage of clean innings than Smith did. As well, he was asked to get more than three outs much less often than Smith was.


Speaking of saves, let's not forget that Smith was once the pace car for the statistic. In 1993, Smith seized the all-time lead in the category from Jeff Reardon and also became the first ever to get to 400 saves. (Let's not forget that 400 saves was once as unthinkable as 600). Smith held the all-time lead in the category for a whopping 13 years before Hoffman took over in 2006. He'd hold the crown for five years until Rivera passed him in 2011. In the post World War II era, just Johnny Murphy and Hoyt Wilhelm held the all-time saves record longer than Smith did. Yes, Hoffman reached 600, but Smith lorded over the category to a more impressive degree in many respects. Even though saves are far easier to come by these days, Smith remains third on the all-time list.


Of course, that's incisive only if you let the flawed saves category drive your thinking in such matters. In reality, Hoffman and Smith were very similar pitchers treated very different by the Hall of Fame electorate. So if you're a Hoffman supporter who didn't support Smith, you're surely leaning on saves totals to get you to that point. How do you justify that?
 

Defender of the Faith
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If Lee Smith was white and played for the Yankees, he would have already been elected to the Hall of Fame.
 

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I'm fine with Smith getting in. He should probably be there. But, the nmbers suggest Hoffman was definitely better. Hoffman was probably considered the second best(after Rivera)of all time when he retired
 

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not sure there was a closer that took more money out of my pocket than Lee Smith. If he doesn't have the "blown save" record he's gotta be pretty damn close. Him and Goose Gossage are the two most overrated relievers in mlb history

Hoffman was incredible...completely diff level and Lee Smith
 

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not sure there was a closer that took more money out of my pocket than Lee Smith. If he doesn't have the "blown save" record he's gotta be pretty damn close. Him and Goose Gossage are the two most overrated relievers in mlb history

Hoffman was incredible...completely diff level and Lee Smith

You are pretty spot on, I believe it’s Gossage, Fingers and Smith as the leaders in blown saves all within ten or so of each other.
 

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pretty good article written for pro-Smith HOF but, with respect to this discussion, the only guy in Hoffman's league is Rivera, then maybe Eck. Those guys sit at a completely different level than Lee Smith so it's not much of a comparison

https://www.billjamesonline.com/article1255/

Smith very much on par with sutter, fingers, and gossage so if those guys are in the hof then smith should be

but, to compare Hoffman with Lee Smith is like comparing Tom Brady with Bob Griese
 

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You are pretty spot on, I believe it’s Gossage, Fingers and Smith as the leaders in blown saves all within ten or so of each other.
yeah just found an article about lee smith and was very surprised that fingers had that many blown saves. i always equated goose with smith but thought guys like sutter and fingers were a level above (in terms of blown saves) but were actually about the same.

whoever wrote the original article doesn't understand how far of a gap it is b/w hoffman and smith. they really don't deserved to be mentioned together.....it's pretty much Hoffman, Eckersley, Rivera then everybody else
 

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Hells Bells
 

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I'm going with saves 601 to 478 and save % 88.8 to 82.3

A batter with 500 HR's has a much better shot at the HOF than a guy with 399, it's a numbers perception game

I also think blowing nearly 1 in 5 save opportunities didn't help

Voters are always seemingly looking for reasons to leave somebody out


I'm not opposed to Smith getting in, actually don't care much either way, but I'd take Hoffman >>>>> Smith any day



The last man I really thought was snubbed was Bert Blyleven, but he's in now
 

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Hoffman definitely had better intro music, but smith pitched a lot
early in his career in tie or close games. smith was more overpowering,
but Hoffman was no slouch. the key to Hoffman's longevity and success,
was that he learned to throw a great changeup which carried him long
after his heat left him.
 

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