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Quote Originally Posted by nuckers View Post
which is why america has problems. Everybody is a special snowflake that should get what they want, it's my right. Well sometimes you forfeit your right. If you are deemed a danger you shouldn't have access. Why that seems outrageous boggles the mind.
What is a "danger" in your mind?
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Quote Originally Posted by Mobdeeper7239 View Post
It's the v tech shooter you buffoon
I know who he you goof. Go practice your ebonics.
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nuckers nuckers is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by Enfuego View Post
I don't agree. My neighbor could say I'm dangerous and I could have my gun rights taken from me? Nope. That's not how our rights work in America.
I should have clarified, that it should be an experts diagnosis. Clearly not every accusation must be taken as gospel and rights taken away but in this case, you had a psych and school board as well as tipline calls, what more do they need before saying no guns for him.
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Quote Originally Posted by Enfuego View Post
What is a "danger" in your mind?
risk to cause harm to others or yourself should get you into a psychiatric consultation, whereby an expert can make the call on your mental stability.
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Enfuego Enfuego is online now
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Quote Originally Posted by nuckers View Post
I should have clarified, that it should be an experts diagnosis. Clearly not every accusation must be taken as gospel and rights taken away but in this case, you had a psych and school board as well as tipline calls, what more do they need before saying no guns for him.
I agree with this.
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ERockMoney ERockMoney is offline
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It may be BS, you never know with the news, but several reports said he had been in and out of mental health facilities and had been receiving treatment/medication in the past for various mental health issues. In that case, seems like that type of person should be flagged from legally purchasing a firearm. Of course, they could go the route of illegally purchasing firearms, but I see no valid reason a person who is diagnosed with mental health issues should be able to have legal access to guns.
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Quote Originally Posted by nuckers View Post
which is why america has problems. Everybody is a special snowflake that should get what they want, it's my right. Well sometimes you forfeit your right. If you are deemed a danger you shouldn't have access. Why that seems outrageous boggles the mind.
There is a process to determine whether or not you're a danger.
The fact that you don't like the Constitutional regime, which has nothing to do with being a "snowflake," of America, means nothing. You don't live here nor do you really understand the law.
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Quote Originally Posted by nuckers View Post
I should have clarified, that it should be an experts diagnosis. Clearly not every accusation must be taken as gospel and rights taken away but in this case, you had a psych and school board as well as tipline calls, what more do they need before saying no guns for him.
They need an adjudication that he was mentally ill or an involuntary commitment to a mental institution.
You not liking Due Process or thinking it is crazy, really doesn't advance the ball here.
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Acebb always kicking ass
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cy1981 cy1981 is online now
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Quote Originally Posted by Enfuego View Post
Anyone caught with an illegal firearm, automatic 10 years no parole. Anyone caught with coke, meth, heroin, 10 years no probation. Quit fucking around.
That would be fine with me but the cost to build about 5 times the amount of prisons we have now would be a little cost prohibitive. There would be about 100 arrests for drug possession for every 1 illegal fireman possession.....maybe even worse.
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Quote Originally Posted by cy1981 View Post
That would be fine with me but the cost to build about 5 times the amount of prisons we have now would be a little cost prohibitive. There would be about 100 arrests for drug possession for every 1 illegal fireman possession.....maybe even worse.
Maybe I'm being dramatic about the drug part of what I said but guns? Heck yes.
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Quote Originally Posted by cy1981 View Post
That would be fine with me but the cost to build about 5 times the amount of prisons we have now would be a little cost prohibitive. There would be about 100 arrests for drug possession for every 1 illegal fireman possession.....maybe even worse.
You do know that we have the one of the highest or highest rates for incarceration in the world and you want to add to it...
Peace offering...let's see what happens...
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So the anti gun folks will admit if they ban guns the school shootings and such will stop? Not one mention of drugs, video games, culture in Hollywood.....but it's the gun alone that does the killing? How much will these incidents go down once certain guns are banned?
How about placing some blame on some shitty parents. Make them accountable. No way in hell my kids do an act like this. That is guaranteed.
Don’t drink and drive...
you might slice a hook!
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Quote Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
So the anti gun folks will admit if they ban guns the school shootings and such will stop? Not one mention of drugs, video games, culture in Hollywood.....but it's the gun alone that does the killing? How much will these incidents go down once certain guns are banned?
How about placing some blame on some shitty parents. Make them accountable. No way in hell my kids do an act like this. That is guaranteed.
God bless you Albert...I feel the same way about my kids. Parents either make things happen with their kids or
wonder what happened.
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nuckers nuckers is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by Acebb View Post
There is a process to determine whether or not you're a danger.
The fact that you don't like the Constitutional regime, which has nothing to do with being a "snowflake," of America, means nothing. You don't live here nor do you really understand the law.
The process is flawed, the sheer number of mentally ill patients committing these types of atrocities should be enough proof of that.
It doesn't have to mean anything, it's my opinion and I live half the year in the US and employ 30 Americans, meet the threshold for citizenship but I have no need, want or desire to get it, I'm a proud Canadian. That doesn't mean I don't understand the law, I just question if it could be better ... and I'm not sure how another 6 months of the year invested would imbue me with any special insight about the law, most full time Americans don't have a clue about your laws so what does living there have to do with anything? If laws were perfect there would be no process to overturn them or alter them in any way, so that there is should be enough for any of us to conclude that Americans were given the power to adapt a law as times adapted for a reason, to change as needed.
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Quote Originally Posted by Acebb View Post
They need an adjudication that he was mentally ill or an involuntary commitment to a mental institution.
You not liking Due Process or thinking it is crazy, really doesn't advance the ball here.
I'm all for due process but the kid should've faced due process, he never had to, he was simply slipping thru the cracks. As I said a post earlier, the system is flawed. There needs to be a better system in place for getting these troubled individuals assessed so that the following step of a judicial review or whomever the decided arbiter(s) are can make a decision. I didn't say that due process was crazy, I said that he had that many strikes and wasn't being looked at for a review to strip his gun rights was crazy.
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Enfuego Enfuego is online now
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Quote Originally Posted by nuckers View Post
The process is flawed, the sheer number of mentally ill patients committing these types of atrocities should be enough proof of that.
It doesn't have to mean anything, it's my opinion and I live half the year in the US and employ 30 Americans, meet the threshold for citizenship but I have no need, want or desire to get it, I'm a proud Canadian. That doesn't mean I don't understand the law, I just question if it could be better ... and I'm not sure how another 6 months of the year invested would imbue me with any special insight about the law, most full time Americans don't have a clue about your laws so what does living there have to do with anything? If laws were perfect there would be no process to overturn them or alter them in any way, so that there is should be enough for any of us to conclude that Americans were given the power to adapt a law as times adapted for a reason, to change as needed.
Not all people that do this are mentally ill though.
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Quote Originally Posted by T Hawk View Post
You do know that we have the one of the highest or highest rates for incarceration in the world and you want to add to it...
If you read what I was responding to that is what I was saying. No way we could hold all drug users in prisons.
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There will be a civil war if liberal nutjobs get back in power, that’s why everyone should have an ar15
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Acebb Acebb is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by nuckers View Post
I'm all for due process but the kid should've faced due process, he never had to, he was simply slipping thru the cracks. As I said a post earlier, the system is flawed. There needs to be a better system in place for getting these troubled individuals assessed so that the following step of a judicial review or whomever the decided arbiter(s) are can make a decision. I didn't say that due process was crazy, I said that he had that many strikes and wasn't being looked at for a review to strip his gun rights was crazy.
Ok, I largely agree with you there.
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Quote Originally Posted by Defying View Post
this is the worst argument to make to your opposition.
The difference between a car and a gun is vast.
Life without cars would be a major inconvenience and detrimental to the economy. Cars are worth the risk. But with that said, we're continually getting better. The same is NOT happening with guns.
1. The technology of safety in cars. Cars are engineered to withstand accidents, to save lives. 2. We're trending to a driverless society which in theory should drastically reduce the accidents. 3. laws continually adapt to the automobile.. raised speed limits, lowered speed limits, engineering of roads, understanding of traffic patterns, use of data analytics for such things...
Cars are not intended to be weapons. Guns are.
4. Guns can't be concealed. You see a car coming in most cases, cant bring a car inside a school.... 5. Hitting mass amount of people with a car vs a gun, a gun will do far more damage (see charlottesville. A car rammed through a crowd, one died vs if he was carrying, who knows how many would have died.)
I could continue. But if you want to really talk about guns, I think you only hurt your argument with analogies that don't really apply.
Totally missing my point, it's not the inanimate object that commits a crime, it's the person
And just in case you missed it, cars have been weaponize. ISIS has called for using vehicles to run over large groups of people.
8 people were run over and KILLED in NYC in October 2017
8 people were killed and 46 injured when a van ran over pedestrians in London June 2017
86 people killed and 450+ people injured when a truck was used as a weapon in France July 2016
So my question is this
Were those 102 people killed by the vehicles? or the person driving those vehicles?
Are people who think taking guns away from law abiding citizens also advocating taking vehicles away from law abiding citizens? Maybe we should all be forced to drive smaller, lighter and less powerful vehicles!!!!! Maybe we should all just rude bikes?
It's not about the size of the inanimate object, it's about the intent of the person / criminal.
There are other demographics that would love disarming Americans beside democrats, terrorists and criminals would love that as well (am I being redundant?) .
Go ahead, make their day, lets punish scores of millions of law abiding Americans
whoop whoop whoop
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". "A rising tide raises all boats". "MAGA"
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Quote Originally Posted by Enfuego View Post
Not all people that do this are mentally ill though.
Not this again. You're still beating this drum? Why is it so important to you that everyone else agree with this (very weird) viewpoint?
If you walk into a building and start firing on strangers for no apparent reason...you are mentally unstable, period, 100% of the time, always always always.
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Quote Originally Posted by HarryCaray View Post
Not this again. You're still beating this drum? Why is it so important to you that everyone else agree with this (very weird) viewpoint?
If you walk into a building and start firing on strangers for no apparent reason...you are mentally unstable, period, 100% of the time, always always always.
You don't have to respond if you don't want to.
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gonna go pick me up another one
GO LEAFS GO
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Very few serial killers (which we typically associate with a mental illness) have a mental illness. At least to the extent they are considered to be insane by the criminal justice system. The classification to be considered legally insane is that an individual must be unable to comprehend that an action is against the law at the exact moment the action is taken.
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