Got into argument over Electoral College last night...

Avocado33 · Oct 8, 2018

Got into an argument last night with three other people (friends of a friend) about the Electoral College. They all believe we should elect a president by way of popular vote, which I think is insane on several levels.

This makes me think: Is this a common belief? Do you guys think a lot of this country supports this? I honestly have no clue, but found it shocking that 75% of a group of well-educated, generally pretty level-headed people believe this.

KennyB · Oct 8, 2018

The electoral college is unpopular with liberals since they have seen Republicans win the presidency without winning the popular vote. The fallacy though is that Trump didnt campaign in states like California that he knew he would lose. The theory of the electoral college is part of the foundation of this country as you could virtually ignore the middle of the country and still win the presidency.

Greenbacks · Oct 8, 2018

Nah,he beat her ass fair and square.

NFLTrends · Oct 8, 2018

Id go along with getting rid of the electoral college, BUT there would need to be a national VOTER ID, or some sort of fingerprint database, where only a person can vote once and/or has to be legally able to vote,

Michelangelo · Oct 8, 2018

Can't get rid of the electoral college. The founders were a prescient group. Even back then there was a concentration of the population in the northeast. They understood that if the popular vote determined the Presidency that 80-90% of the country geographically would have little representation. All Presidents would come from the northeast and represent the interests of the northeast first possibly to the exclusion of the vast geographical majority of the country.

So they developed the electoral college to assure all states of proportional representation.

They also balanced Congress to allow for more representatives to come from the more populous states.

But they rebalanced by designating only two senators from each state regardless of population or geographic size.

Then they assigned duties and responsibilities to each branch.

The Founders wanted the best semblance of equal representation that they could devise. They also wanted checks and balances between the Senate, the House, the President, and the Judiciary.

Remind you, the cities were not predominantly liberal then. And the rural was not predominantly conservative. But the theory behind the electoral college still rings true to their intent.

Man those guys were great thinkers.

And, no, in the interest of fairness to all Americans it should never change.

Michelangelo · Oct 8, 2018

And, by the way, voter ID is a separate issue. Only fraudsters would be against such in this complex society that America has become with 325 million residents.

My guess is that Trump will address this issue somewhere in his second term.

Willie99 · Oct 8, 2018

Thankfully it will take a constitutional amendment to get rid of the electoral college, and that will never be accepted by the majority of states. The electoral college prevents any one concentration of interests from controlling the national agenda. The democrats appeal to the inner-city voter, and they win the city vote by outrageous percentages.

If we go to a popular votes, everyone's vote becomes less valued, not more. All the democrats would focus on is campaigning in a handful of cities, promising those cities the world, doing whatever it takes to get the vote out in those cities, and NOBODY else would matter. To make votes more valuable, which is the stupid argument the popular vote proponents think they're making, you have to go in the opposite direction. Take away winner take all states, make the candidates fight for each district. Now they're forced to pay attention to every state, because they'll be a lot more EC votes in play.

The democrats want to make this about a few cities, I want to make this about the entire country.

SheriffJoe · Oct 9, 2018

Ocasio-Cortez says we must eliminate the electoral college so you know it's a brilliant idea.

PoundFoolish · Oct 9, 2018

ANYONE who thinks we should get rid of it does not understand it.

Dave007inVegas · Oct 9, 2018

Michelangelo said:
Can't get rid of the electoral college. The founders were a prescient group. Even back then there was a concentration of the population in the northeast. They understood that if the popular vote determined the Presidency that 80-90% of the country geographically would have little representation. All Presidents would come from the northeast and represent the interests of the northeast first possibly to the exclusion of the vast geographical majority of the country.

So they developed the electoral college to assure all states of proportional representation.

They also balanced Congress to allow for more representatives to come from the more populous states.

But they rebalanced by designating only two senators from each state regardless of population or geographic size.

Then they assigned duties and responsibilities to each branch.

The Founders wanted the best semblance of equal representation that they could devise. They also wanted checks and balances between the Senate, the House, the President, and the Judiciary.

Remind you, the cities were not predominantly liberal then. And the rural was not predominantly conservative. But the theory behind the electoral college still rings true to their intent.

Man those guys were great thinkers.

And, no, in the interest of fairness to all Americans it should never change.

This. If it weren't for the electoral college we would be the United States of California and New York.

JDeuce · Oct 9, 2018

Already some home run responses in this thread. We live in a constitutional republic, not a pure democracy.

But tell your friend to pick up a grade school civics textbook if he wants to know why the FF's created the Senate the way they did. As has also been noted on here before, these men were some of the most brilliant to ever walk the face of the earth. The checks and balances are specifically designed so that no one branch of government can just implement its will and take everything over.

I don't understand why people aren't more interested in simply exercising their tenth amendment rights. If you want to live like freaks with fags in drag parading through the streets of San Francisco, great...that can be California. Just leave the other states alone who don't want that and would rather go about living their own way.

TomGshotput · Oct 14, 2018

Michelangelo said:
So they developed the electoral college to assure all states of proportional representation.

Electoral College was a compromise, but the "one state, one vote" compromise wasn't because people from Philadelphia and New York wanted to give up power so that people in Delaware and Georgia could have more power. The compromise was so that the smallest colonies like Delaware and Georgia would even think about joining the Union. That's the only reason our Founding Fathers agreed to such a unique system (never used before, never used again).

Interestingly, the path to eliminate the Electoral College would be done by states deciding to exercise their states rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

Even more interesting is that the people who are typically strongly in favor of states rights, would be completely against states rights if we ever went down this path.

Willie99 · Oct 14, 2018

I applaud Tom for making an argument with his own words, very refreshing change.

I'm going to suggest that the very reasons he mentioned the founding fathers used to create the union exist today to maintain the union.

I'm also going to repeat my belief that the constitutional amendment required to change the electoral college will never pass, for the very same reasons.

The smaller states will never give a handful of urban areas control of the federal government.

I'm not sure what the state's rights comments are referring to, but I can say I'm 100% behind states rights and the electoral college, and there's nothing inconsistent about those positions

flashmo · Oct 14, 2018

Sheriff Joe said:
Ocasio-Cortez says we must eliminate the electoral college so you know it's a brilliant idea.

She is a horse toothed jackass

GasMan · Oct 14, 2018

Willie99 said:
I applaud Tom for making an argument with his own words, very refreshing change.

I'm going to suggest that the very reasons he mentioned the founding fathers used to create the union exist today to maintain the union.

I'm also going to repeat my belief that the constitutional amendment required to change the electoral college will never pass, for the very same reasons.

The smaller states will never give a handful of urban areas control of the federal government.

I'm not sure what the state's rights comments are referring to, but I can say I'm 100% behind states rights and the electoral college, and there's nothing inconsistent about those positions

Tom is using a false dichotomy. States rights and the electoral college are directly proportional...he is arguing the contrary. Republican support carries the majority of states, year after year. Not sure where he is getting his facts from.

SheriffJoe · Oct 15, 2018

Hey, lets scrap the electoral college and elect presidents by popular vote! :think:

Uhhh, on the second thought, maybe not.

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