So the New Math on 6-5 BJ is to double down when you have BJ...

TheFalls · Mar 30, 2019

...last weekend. Heard it at the Linq where I stayed from a dealer and later on a rando player and then heard it down town from a dealer at the Nugget.
I'm decent at math...but this sounds really dumb.
I made decent money for the second time in my life out of ~10ish trips to Vegas. The one time I got a blackjack at a 6-5 table, I took my moneys.

(The linq is pretty underrated for what it is...it was the best comp I got from Caesars for the most expensive weekend in Vegas). And I stayed at the Imperial Toilet circa '01.

Doug · Mar 30, 2019

Better yet refuse to play, it's virtually an unbeatable game , they've taken away that made the game beatable like single deck 3-2,doubling down after splitting pairs, expanding from one hand to 2 or more when the count is favorable and the deck is also ace rich, every advantage you had back in the 80's and earlier is gone . You could still play against a shoe and get the all important 3-2 but probably are looking at $25 minimums and spreading $25-$200 will have a pit boss staring you down real fast and some beneficial rules are still gone, plus that requires a pretty large bankroll to try to go 25-200. You might just as wear a T-shirt that says

I'm a card counter
6/5 is unplayable even if you pull off something ridiculous like going from $2 to $200, they'd just shuffle after every hand or backroom you and ask you to leave.

bodyforlife · Mar 30, 2019

Several players have told me that when they are playing a 6:5 game and are dealt a blackjack, they choose to double down on the blackjack as an eleven instead. Ack! No. No. No. Let me explain just how bad an idea this is....

https://www.blackjackinfo.com/double-down-on-a-65-blackjack-read-this-first/

bodyforlife · Mar 30, 2019

The Falls said:
(The linq is pretty underrated for what it is...it was the best comp I got from Caesars for the most expensive weekend in Vegas). And I stayed at the Imperial Toilet circa '01.

Actually the Linq sucks and Caesars is probably the worst comp program out there. I played craps once at Planet Hollywood and the pit boss told me I had an average wager of $320 for 3 hrs and 15 min. In general, it's preferred you play 4 hours but you would typically get something for that level of play (at least enough credit for a meal). The pit boss said he couldn't buy me a cup of coffee and when I checked my total rewards credit the next day, they gave me $5, lol. That was the last time I played at a Caesars affiliated casino. I find the Venetian/Palazzo to be much fairer with their comps and their rooms are far superior to the Caesar properties. The comps are certainly better downtown but I'm not a fan.

TheFalls · Mar 30, 2019

bodyforlife said:
Actually the Linq sucks and Caesars is probably the worst comp program out there. I played craps once at Planet Hollywood and the pit boss told me I had an average wager of $320 for 3 hrs and 15 min. In general, it's preferred you play 4 hours but you would typically get something for that level of play. The pit boss said he couldn't buy me a cup of coffee and when I checked my total rewards credit the next day, they gave me $5, lol. That was the last time I played at a Caesars affiliated casino. I find the Venetian/Palazzo to be much fairer with their comps and their rooms are far superior to the Caesar properties. The comps are certainly better downtown but I'm not a fan.

The Linq/Caesars, etc in terms of comps does suck. Note that I was comparing...and should have specified...actual hotel setup and room arrangements.
I was in pretty good with Horseshoe...and once Caesars took them over, my comps went to nil. This was probably a last hurrah.
My average hand is probably like $40. Avg craps play probably close to $100. And I never expect even a food credit at this point.
I could have stayed at Venetian for like $70 more a night than Linq. And even Caesars for like $60 more But passed.
Encore is the best place in Vegas I've stayed...stayed for a week.

Doug · Mar 30, 2019

Yes, doubling on a natural is horrible strategy, only way that could work is if the deck we're dealt virtually to the last card and you knew the few remaining cards were almost all 10 count cards, that will never happen !

The only way I'd play a 6:5 game would be at the absolute minimum stake and like a poolside game and there was some hot chick playing that I wanted to try to talk to and meet and see if it goes anywhere from there, or perhaps a super hot sexy dealer in a bikini that I want a closer look at , something along those parameters.

fightgood · Mar 30, 2019

Most people don't know that a BJ used to pay 2-1 in Vegas. Then they changed it to 3-2 and now its 6-5 in most places

6-5 fits right in with their pay for parking and resort fees trend

Doug · Mar 30, 2019

When was it 2:1 ?

TomGshotput · Mar 31, 2019

The math is pretty straightforward: doubling is worth about +31% of the bet on average (+66% against a 5 or 6; +15% against an ace). Standing is always worth +120%.

A soft 11 that is not a blackjack should usually be doubled -- provided it won't bring heat

TomGshotput · Mar 31, 2019

Doug said:
You could still play against a shoe and get the all important 3-2 but probably are looking at $25 minimums and spreading $25-$200 will have a pit boss staring you down real fast and some beneficial rules are still gone

An 8-1 spread at that level is never going to catch any heat except for the most hardheaded players imaginable. The best full time players are doing $25-$400

Doug said:
plus that requires a pretty large bankroll to try to go 25-200.

Betting $200 at every hand at +2 or higher and $25 on every other hand would require a bankroll equal to about one year of average annual income in the US to play indefinitely with very little risk of going bust. Playing at that level would be worth about $30 per hour.

Doug said:
I'm a card counter
6/5 is unplayable even if you pull off something ridiculous like going from $2 to $200, they'd just shuffle after every hand or backroom you and ask you to leave.

In Nevada if they backroom you and then ask you to leave without turning you over to the police it is false imprisonment and worth about a $1 million for whomever is lucky enough to have it done to them. If a place only has 6-5, it's not worth that much, so may as well spread as much as possible until the backoffs come

fightgood · Mar 31, 2019

Doug said:
When was it 2:1 ?

I heard it was 2:1 in the early days of Vegas. I looked it up but cant find any accurate info on it. Maybe one of the old timers around here remembers

kidman232 · Mar 31, 2019

bodyforlife said:
Actually the Linq sucks and Caesars is probably the worst comp program out there. I played craps once at Planet Hollywood and the pit boss told me I had an average wager of $320 for 3 hrs and 15 min. In general, it's preferred you play 4 hours but you would typically get something for that level of play (at least enough credit for a meal). The pit boss said he couldn't buy me a cup of coffee and when I checked my total rewards credit the next day, they gave me $5, lol. That was the last time I played at a Caesars affiliated casino. I find the Venetian/Palazzo to be much fairer with their comps and their rooms are far superior to the Caesar properties. The comps are certainly better downtown but I'm not a fan.

Depends how you play, most casino dont comp on odds, so if you play pass line with odds, and 3-4 come bets with odds, you might have $300+ on the table and your avg bet is listed at 320, but your getting comped off $40 of play

Doug · Mar 31, 2019

fightgood said:
I heard it was 2:1 in the early days of Vegas. I looked it up but cant find any accurate info on it. Maybe one of the old timers around here remembers

I do believe you are wrong on that 2:1.you get dealt a natural about once every 21 hands, so almost 5% of the time, that's why the 6:5 reduction is such a killer. At 2:1 you'd have a healthy advantage just using basic strategy and flat betting.

I think I Know where the confusion originates. Insurance pays 2:1 and is printed right on the felt usually, you or whomever is almost certainly confusing the insurance payoff with the BJ payoff

bigmoneyjim · Mar 31, 2019

Doug said:
When was it 2:1 ?

In Atlantic City?

Doug · Mar 31, 2019

I highly doubt it, especially in AC. Maybe, just maybe in old Vegas. I'm talking the traditional BJ game with fairly normal rules, whatever number of decks, no gimmick games. I just can't see it, nobody seems able to find a history of it, myself included. There are a lo

Doug · Mar 31, 2019

A lot of very experienced gamblers here no one seems to recall this. It would just be too easily beatable. Casinos don't like to lose money.

So the New Math on 6-5 BJ is to double down when you have BJ...

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