Small Business tax question for Willie99

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RX resident ChicAustrian
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If I own a small business that is taxed as an S-Corp, I must pay myself a "reasonable salary" as the IRS defines it. The rest of the money I can pay myself as capital gains. So I have 2 questions:

1. Is the above correct?

2. Could I pay myself $36,000 a year and wait a year and a day to pay myself a capital gains distribution and not pay long term capital gains taxes since I didn't make enough to pay long term capital gains?
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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You have to pay yourself a reasonable salary, that's true. The IRS mandates this so that S-Corp owners don't totally avoid social security and medicare taxes, known as the self-employment tax for many small business owners (partnerships and Schedule C's)

To answer your question. If you take $ 18,000 in salary and an $ 18,000 "distribution" (akin to a draw), you'll save approximately 15% of the $ 18,000 (or $ 2,700) in FICA and Medicare tax. There will be a small giveback on unemployment taxes, but you'll net over $ 2,000 in tax savings. Both wages and your $ 18,000 distribution are taxed at the same rate for federal income tax purposes, whatever your marginal rate may be.


Now let's assume the same numbers as above, but you take a distribution for $ 20,000. Assuming you had no basis (I'll call it equity for the sake of conversation) at the beginning of the year, then you have a $ 2,000 capital gain.

$ 36,000 profit less $ 18,000 salary leaves $ 18,000 to be distributed without additional tax consequences. Since you took $ 20,000 in this example, the excess distribution is a capital gain. You want to AVOID doing this if you can.

Obviously, the more you make the greater the savings. I'll almost always advise this path if a business owner makes $ 100,000 or more every year, taking $ 50,000 in distribution will save around $ 7,000 in payroll taxes. There are other pitfalls to watch, basis and at risk limitations become more restrictive with S-Corps, and the amount you can contribute to stuff like retirement plans is subject to wage limitations (distributions don't count as income for retirement plan purposes)
 

RX resident ChicAustrian
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Thanks for the explanation.

Is the distribution always taxed at the same rate for federal income taxes, so it's not like true capital gains that are taxed on long or short term gains?
 

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Thanks for the explanation.

Is the distribution always taxed at the same rate for federal income taxes, so it's not like true capital gains that are taxed on long or short term gains?

If your distributions do not exceed income (or income plus carryover of retained earnings), then there are no capital gains. Your distributions are ordinary income to the extent of current income

If your distributions exceed income (or basis), then you have a capital gain distribution.

A capital gain distribution occurs when your distributions exceed the amount of S-Corp income you paid or are paying taxes on (it's not something you want to do)
 

RX resident ChicAustrian
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Why is it worse to take a capital gains distribution exceeding income? I assumed that was a better way to keep your taxes lower.

Will the capital gains distributions always be taxed at the short term/income tax rates?

Thanks to take the time to explain this to me, I'm curious about how burdensome and complicated the tax laws are to small business startups.
 

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You're paying a tax on income you never earned, it's a one way street

You only made 36K, but you're paying tax on 36k plus 2k on capital gains you never earned and it's not a timing difference you get back

We're moving into accounting issues now, kinda technical stuff
 

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Slow down, there are plenty of Democrats in here who are unemployed and it may take them reading it 7 or 8 times to understand any of it.
 

RX resident ChicAustrian
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You're paying a tax on income you never earned, it's a one way street

You only made 36K, but you're paying tax on 36k plus 2k on capital gains you never earned and it's not a timing difference you get back

We're moving into accounting issues now, kinda technical stuff
Thanks Willie. I guess the moral is that if you own an S-Corp, make sure the distributions aren't bigger than the "reasonable salary".
 

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Actually, it's not really about the wages for this issue. It's about income and distributions

Let's assume your S-Corp has $ 36,000 of income, forget about the wages

If you take NO withdrawals, your have $ 36,000 of ordinary income

If you take out $ 30,000 in cash, you have $ 36,000 of ordinary income

If you take out $ 36,000, you have $ 36,000 of ordinary income

If you take out $ 41,000, you have $ 36,000 of ordinary income AND a $ 5,000 capital gain.

Your ordinary income NEVER changes, but if you take out too much you pay taxes on income you never earned. There are ways to plan for this stuff, hire a good accountant :)
 

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