An adult conversation about the death rate

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Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Early in the epidemic, public-health experts feared the virus might kill up to 2 percent of those infected, potentially causing millions of deaths in the United States and tens of millions worldwide. Those terrifying estimates prompted the lockdowns that have done incalculable harm to the economy, shattered small businesses and left children traumatized and untold numbers suffering from brutal isolation.

But we now know much more about the virus. And we know its lethality is lower than we originally feared — and highly concentrated in the very elderly and people with serious health problems.

In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention *esti*mated in May that the coronavirus kills about 0.26 percent of the people it infects, about 1 in 400 people. New estimates from Sweden suggest that only 1 in 10,000 people under 50 will die from the virus, compared to 1 in 14 of people over 80 and 1 in 6 of those over 90.

Estimates for the coronavirus’ lethality have fallen so sharply because calculating the *so-called infection fatality rate requires scientists and physicians to know both the total number of deaths and the total number of people infected.

Tracking deaths is relatively easy. But tracking infections can be tough. Many people who are infected with respiratory *viruses like influenza or the novel coronavirus have only mild symptoms or none. They may never be tested or even know they are infected.
Thus, in the early stages of an epidemic, scientists must guess at the number of mild and hidden infections.

Probably the best way to discover the real number is through antibody tests, which measure how many people have already been infected and recovered — even if they never had symptoms.

Unlike some other countries, the United States still hasn’t completed a national random antibody study — yet another way in which our public-health establishment has failed to get the data we need to make good decisions about lockdowns. But some counties, states and countries have.
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Those studies consistently show that far more people have been infected with and recovered from the coronavirus than suggested by data from tests that only measure current infections. Tests of municipal sewage systems — measuring the virus’ genetic signature in wastewater — have had similar findings
.

Nearly all the studies find between 10 and 100 times the number of total infections as reported infections, with the average somewhere around 20 to 25 times.

In other words, while the CDC reports 2.34 million Americans have been infected with the coronavirus, the actual number of infected and recovered people may be closer to 50 million. (CDC Director Robert Redfield told journalists Thursday that the number of cases may be 10 times higher than the earlier 2.34 million.)

Thus, the death rate, which would be 5.2 percent based on that 2.34 million figure, is actually more like one-20th as high — or 0.26 percent.

To be sure, these estimates still have some uncertainty. The *actual figure could be as low as 0.1 percent or as high as 0.4 to 0.5 percent, though treatment advances should mean it will trend lower over time. Even at 0.26 percent, the rate is still significantly higher than influenza most years, more comparable to a bad flu strain like the 1968 Hong Kong flu.

But it is far lower than we initially thought — a fact that should be cause for celebration.

Instead, some media outlets insist on using the out-of-date estimates that are much higher. For example, an ESPN article this week said public discussions about reopening the National Football League were “ignoring a mortality rate that has been estimated at 1.4 percent.” That figure is more than five times the CDC’s best estimate. Even more jarring, it is more than 100 times the actual risk to people in their 20s and 30s — the age range for nearly all NFL players.

Using those overstated estimates is a recipe for panic, bad public policy — and continued lockdowns that may delay to *return to normality.

Let’s hope that isn’t the reason people in the media are using them.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/getting-realistic-about-the-coronavirus-death-rate/
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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What's missing in our discussion on COVID-19? Responsible reporting and intelligent discussion. Sadly, what you see on this forum are the same whacked out narratives you see throughout the coverage by our criminal corrupt colluding always lying democratic media. They have no honor, they sell hysteria.

Their target audience swallows and regurgitates dutifully, not a critical thought to be found.

The COVID-19 models assuming very high mortality rates projected millions of Americans were going to die, that and that alone led us to the lockdowns. They quickly retracted one prediction followed by another followed by another, their initial projections were complete and total bullshit. I know the assholes will say "the lockdowns saved us", because that's who they are. The reason why we don't have millions of deaths is because the MORTALITY RATES are a fraction of what was projected. That just an undeniable truth, nothing else really matters.

We also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the mortality rate is virtually zero for younger people, but increases significantly for people over the age of 80, still higher for those over 90, and more concerning for those with compromised immunity systems

Knowing today what we didn't know three months ago, we would never have shut down the country.

It's time to grow up and act like adults

The world is reopening
 

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Willie,

I've given up on worrying about a death rate since there's really no way to know what it is without absolute numbers. From the start of this thing, I've looked at deaths versus population and will continue to do so. At this point, it's clear what the narrative is. If something no longer works (i.e. deaths aren't surging), then move the goal posts to the next thing. The media tried cases, got called out by everyone on that (even the Libs favorite guy...Nate Silver), and now it's on to hospitalizations. It's easy to follow the bouncing ball (I'm really not sure who the media and the Useful Idiots think they're fooling). Obviously it's prudent to make sure that there is enough care, so I don't really have an issue with that. I do with disingenuous stories by the media though. The latest is a story about a hospital in Houston that is at 100% capacity in the ICU. Of course, they fail to tell you that they are typically at 80-90% capacity (and that most hospitals run that way), that only 28% of the ICU are Coronavirus cases, and they have the ability to convert rooms as needed and have been working on that. And people wonder why there is a distrust of the media.

The most laughable thing to me right now is this narrative that it's the young people partying in bars (this is the one being bandied about by some of my Liberal clients here in Texas). I pointed this out to one of my friends in San Francisco and he said they've had a huge surge there also and they've basically been in shutdown mode. He works with the Four Seasons hotel in town and told me a couple of weeks ago they were on the verge of reopening but as soon as the protests hit, they went back down to shutdown (I think they are in a restrictive open now). He said it looks like a war zone with windows boarded up on many businesses. They were set to open the hotel in July, now it's been pushed back to October! Another client is a nurse from Virginia. Her family back home is in a similar situation as far as the restrictive measures (no partying there either but hospitalizations up). The one commonality between both places? The protests. But man, when you bring that up, talk about feathers getting ruffled.
 

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Look at the historical data of a national yearly death rate. That will tell you all you need to know about it.
 
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Willie....the world is not reopening for Americans....come next week, about 95% of all Americans will not be allowed to enter Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America....I am now stuck in Thailand with no place to go...(even though I am happy to be here)

Americans are now considered damaged goods because of out treatment of the virus...(was going to call it the trump virus)...we are now men without a country...kind of sucks a bit....
 
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I am really looking forward to 2021 because 2020 really sucked....never seen anything like it....
 

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mango...MBia...Mob and some others will die alone trapped in their house of fear. Much better life than a small risk of catching 'the virus' if you go out into the forbidden zones
 

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Good article but this goes way over their head Willie. Presenting these facts is viewed as "treating corona like a hoax" and gets immediately dismissed...just like anything Trump says is immediately dismissed.

Hell our resident idiots were still claiming the death rate was 5%+ recently, and using that # to extrapolate their own "modeled" death projections.
 

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The media's motivation is to keep us scared be it from the current unseen virus or the constant fear of disease (notice the drug companies that advertise on the news networks). Agree, we should have not shut down and put all efforts in protecting the vulnerable who make up more than 75% of all deaths. The overall mortality is the same as the flu...just read the first post to understand the denominator in that equation. Will we ever see a headline, "Four members of the Phillies have the flu?' Of course not. We are a nation of numbskulls who follow the latest social media trend be it anti-vax or Hillary's pizza shop of porno.
 

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I don't know where you guys come from but where I come from, math is math and black and white.

So, when we talk about the death rate from COVID, why is there even a discussion?
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Willie....the world is not reopening for Americans....come next week, about 95% of all Americans will not be allowed to enter Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America....I am now stuck in Thailand with no place to go...(even though I am happy to be here)

Americans are now considered damaged goods because of out treatment of the virus...(was going to call it the trump virus)...we are now men without a country...kind of sucks a bit....

VD, we shall see if that holds true. I'm going with very unlikely. Somebody says somebody is thinking about something, CNN and their consortium blames Trump and that's what everyone runs with
 

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Fauci lied about the death rate at the very beginning, and he knew he was. He said virus was ten (10) times more deadly than the annual flu. That was ca ca.

I do not want to look up the numbers but for 2019 it was like:


  • Flu positive tests
  • Flu deaths (10%)
  • estimated flu cases not tested: 36,000,000 so, 0.1% deaths (I remember the 36 million and the 0.1%)

Then for Chinese virus he used positive tests, deaths, but did not include ANY "estimated" even though we all knew at the time there had to be millions out there...

He knew exactly what he was doing he's done this for decades, my clinical friends in healthcare knew he was lying... I posted this 3-4 months ago several times.

Also in 2019 and previously there were caronaviruses out there that they previously lumped in with the flu, now they put a lot into carona (get $39K per hospital per death) and pneumonia... Chinese virus deaths are vastly overstated for political reasons.

They will keep the pressure on thru the Dem Governors and Dem Mayors and of course the commie media until after the election, then it will magically not be so important, just like it was not for the riots but it was for Trump's rally.

Orwell was correct, 36 years off, but correct.
 

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Then for Chinese virus he used positive tests, deaths, but did not include ANY "estimated" even though we all knew at the time there had to be millions out there...

Absolutely he did lie, and the parrots in here were regurgitating "6% death rates" and our local idiots were using it to model (fear-monger) the possibility of millions dead.
 

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willie watch my video. this has got to get out!
 

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Willie....the world is not reopening for Americans....come next week, about 95% of all Americans will not be allowed to enter Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America....I am now stuck in Thailand with no place to go...(even though I am happy to be here)

Americans are now considered damaged goods because of out treatment of the virus...(was going to call it the trump virus)...we are now men without a country...kind of sucks a bit....
So Americans won't be allowed to enter countries in Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America
starting next week. Oh the horror!

Now I'm not a world traveler, I've only been out of the continental US twice in my life, once to Vietnam
and once to England. Now I can say unequivocally say that I wouldn't want to live in either country.

Vietnam sucked for obvious reasons and England is what I will call quaint.

I have to assume England mirrors Europe. If that is in fact the case all I say is no thank you.

It's not a 3rd world country but it isn't the USA either. Lets just say time stopped for them around
1950. While America continue to progress England went dormant.

As for Asia, South America, and Central America and this is strictly my opinion and mine alone, I consider
those countries 3rd world.

So to sum up my rant it doesn't bother me in the least that I can't travel there.
 

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Willie....the world is not reopening for Americans....come next week, about 95% of all Americans will not be allowed to enter Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America....I am now stuck in Thailand with no place to go...(even though I am happy to be here)

So Americans won't be allowed to enter countries in Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America
starting next week. Oh the horror!

I'd have to concur with Dave on this one. I really don't give a shit if I can't go to those countries. It's not like they were on my bucket list of places to go.
 

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Willie....the world is not reopening for Americans....come next week, about 95% of all Americans will not be allowed to enter Europe, Asia, South America, and Central America....I am now stuck in Thailand with no place to go...(even though I am happy to be here)

Americans are now considered damaged goods because of out treatment of the virus...(was going to call it the trump virus)...we are now men without a country...kind of sucks a bit....

Isnt that racist to close your borders to people from other countries?
 

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