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Thread: Quarterbacks in the draft

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  1. #51  
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    "Mobile" is fine.
    But running all the time does not work, NFL defenses will make a cripple out of a QB that runs too much.
    Run for a first down on third down twice a game when necessary, see a wide open gap to run on 3rd & 7? Fine.
    Run as part of the offense like RG3 and others, nope.

    Mahomes runs too much and is paying a price, I think he can adapt. Watson did after getting hammered a few years.
    IMO Fields value too much is in his running, not so sure he will be an NFL pocket passer if he passes instead of option run/ pass.
    Wentz ran way too much and is hobbled, maybe he can adapt in better surroundings.
    Trubisky, too, ran too much, shoulder and other injuries made him look bad, he may get another chance and wise up.
    Hurts has not been a good passer thus far in the NFL, and eventually if he keeps running will get pulverized, I do not see him has being even a middle of the pack NFL QB, will be 24th-26th out of 32 or so.
    Mac Jones can run for a first down or two when necessary, and is an NFL style passer. I would take him after Lawrence and Wilson but before Fields and way way before the little league QB Lance, no way, he is a huge risk.
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  2. #52  
    RX Junior carlitosway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    Loved his game. Those Eagle teams deserved more. Great defense. Just couldn't get over the hump. Buddy just didn't pay enough attention to the offense...

    Back in the day.. When a QB would double as a punter. Amazing. He was a great punter too. One of the best punts ever. I think it was in Buffalo.

    Danny White used to double as a punter too in Dallas. Danny White. Probably the most under appreciated QB of all time. He was good. Just couldn't get Dallas over the hump in the early 80's. Couple NFC championship games. He wasn't Roger. So Dallas never loved him.
    Cunningham was the ultimate weapon. The punt was here at Giants Stadium. White was terrific another under appreciated QB he played in Staubach's shadow and Montana and the 49ers dynasty. Here's a flashback Love to that 91 yard punt...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzMLLmcD1mE
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  3. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serbone View Post
    "Mobile" is fine.
    But running all the time does not work, NFL defenses will make a cripple out of a QB that runs too much.
    Run for a first down on third down twice a game when necessary, see a wide open gap to run on 3rd & 7? Fine.
    Run as part of the offense like RG3 and others, nope.

    Mahomes runs too much and is paying a price, I think he can adapt. Watson did after getting hammered a few years.
    IMO Fields value too much is in his running, not so sure he will be an NFL pocket passer if he passes instead of option run/ pass.
    Wentz ran way too much and is hobbled, maybe he can adapt in better surroundings.
    Trubisky, too, ran too much, shoulder and other injuries made him look bad, he may get another chance and wise up.
    Hurts has not been a good passer thus far in the NFL, and eventually if he keeps running will get pulverized, I do not see him has being even a middle of the pack NFL QB, will be 24th-26th out of 32 or so.
    Mac Jones can run for a first down or two when necessary, and is an NFL style passer. I would take him after Lawrence and Wilson but before Fields and way way before the little league QB Lance, no way, he is a huge risk.
    Mac Jones might be good but not special or have a higher ceiling than the other guys. Who was the last good QB out of 'Bama? Joe Namath,lol. Pocket QBing is a thing of the past get with the times you're behind. You can't even offer up enough examples to justify your argument. I just laundry listed you and you fired back with Brady, the greatest ever. Rivers and Brees just retired and a weak argument about Mahomes running too much and paying the price?!? You "think" he can adapt?!? Good lord. You don't follow the NFL do you? Why is he in danger of getting pummeled because he got harassed in the SB because he was missing TWO starting OLmen, please. RGlll past history, was a straight up bust for his lack of QB ability not because he ran all the time. Fields we know nothing about how his game will translate. Wentz doesn't run all the time will see how he does in Indy reunited with Reich. Hurts incomplete grade still being evaluated by all but I like his ability to be mobile! He does not run exclusively. NFL franchises don't want a statue from the start as a QB unless they can cover for that QB with a great OL.
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  4. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlitosway View Post
    Mac Jones might be good but not special or have a higher ceiling than the other guys. Who was the last good QB out of 'Bama? Joe Namath,lol. Pocket QBing is a thing of the past get with the times you're behind. You can't even offer up enough examples to justify your argument. I just laundry listed you and you fired back with Brady, the greatest ever. Rivers and Brees just retired and a weak argument about Mahomes running too much and paying the price?!? You "think" he can adapt?!? Good lord. You don't follow the NFL do you? Why is he in danger of getting pummeled because he got harassed in the SB because he was missing TWO starting OLmen, please. RGlll past history, was a straight up bust for his lack of QB ability not because he ran all the time. Fields we know nothing about how his game will translate. Wentz doesn't run all the time will see how he does in Indy reunited with Reich. Hurts incomplete grade still being evaluated by all but I like his ability to be mobile! He does not run exclusively. NFL franchises don't want a statue from the start as a QB unless they can cover for that QB with a great OL.
    I agree that the NFL appears to be transitioning at the QB position.

    But you can't deny that the SB was just won by a pocket passer who was in his first year with his new team.

    The Championship games had pocket passers in three of the four QB positions.

    Brady 1 rush -1 yd
    Rogers 0 rushes - 0 yds
    Maholmes 5 rushes - 5 yds
    Allen 7 rushes - 88 yds

    So it would be foolish of us to say that the pocket passer is obsolete. Actually the narrative should be that the running QB has yet to prove successful at the ultimate level.
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  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    I agree that the NFL appears to be transitioning at the QB position.

    But you can't deny that the SB was just won by a pocket passer who was in his first year with his new team.

    The Championship games had pocket passers in three of the four QB positions.

    Brady 1 rush -1 yd
    Rogers 0 rushes - 0 yds
    Maholmes 5 rushes - 5 yds
    Allen 7 rushes - 88 yds

    So it would be foolish of us to say that the pocket passer is obsolete. Actually the narrative should be that the running QB has yet to prove successful at the ultimate level.
    Sorry three of the four except for Brady are not PURE POCKET QBs. They have the ability, to run, scramble, roll out. The transition has been in effect for years. And Brady is just phenomenal and greatest ever with a good OL to help mask his weakness for being immobile. The statues of the NFL that are not mobile who can only QB from the pocket are Big Ben, Goff, Ryan, Dalton and Brady (EXCUSED as cited repeatedly). I think it's foolish to say the solely playing from the pocket is alright. QBs have to be multi-faceted.
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  6. #56  
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    The biggest problem for mobile QB's is that they become immobile QB's and their career paths either change of fade away

    I'm also going to suggest the top QB's in this year's draft are NOT highly rated because of mobility. They're tall, they're smart, they're good passers with strong arms
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  7. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie99 View Post
    The biggest problem for mobile QB's is that they become immobile QB's and their career paths either change of fade away

    I'm also going to suggest the top QB's in this year's draft are NOT highly rated because of mobility. They're tall, they're smart, they're good passers with strong arms
    They're all of the above WITH the mobility. Not Mack Jones he lacks mobility.
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  8. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlitosway View Post
    Sorry three of the four except for Brady are not PURE POCKET QBs. They have the ability, to run, scramble, roll out. The transition has been in effect for years. And Brady is just phenomenal and greatest ever with a good OL to help mask his weakness for being immobile. The statues of the NFL that are not mobile who can only QB from the pocket are Big Ben, Goff, Ryan, Dalton and Brady (EXCUSED as cited repeatedly). I think it's foolish to say the solely playing from the pocket is alright. QBs have to be multi-faceted.
    I never said "pure pocket passers". I said pocket passers. Look at the Championship Game numbers I presented. Calling them runners is a total mischaracterization.

    Here are your SB QBs for the past five years:

    Brady
    Maholmes

    Maholmes
    Jimmy G

    Brady
    Goff

    Brady
    Ryan

    Peyton Manning
    Cam Newton

    Don't tell me that a pocket passer can't still be successful in the NFL. You're dreaming of a more exciting game. But it's not here yet at the top level.
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  9. #59  
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    You don’t beat the speed of a defense with mobile Quarterbacks

    You beat the speed of defenses with the speed of anticipation and accuracy. That’s the only thing elite athletic speed will never be able to beat.

    Arm strength is not even that important. Quarterbacks who can anticipate with accuracy will always move the chains more efficiently.

    The quarterback are more protected than ever in the pocket also. And pass interference is now a weapon for throwing.

    The mobile QB has no advantages outside the pocket. And can even create more holding calls on scrambles. It’s harder for lines to block with moving QBs

    I wouldn’t consider a mobile QB unless anticipation and accuracy are strengths.
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  10. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrishansen View Post
    The mobile QB has no advantages outside the pocket.
    Decent post. You made some very good points. Outside of this quoted portion. And then you ruined it.

    The mobile QB has no advantages outside the pocket? That's a straight up retarded take.
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  11. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    Decent post. You made some very good points. Outside of this quoted portion. And then you ruined it.

    The mobile QB has no advantages outside the pocket? That's a straight up retarded take.
    Because over time it produces a negative. I’m not talking about Allen breaking a Rush off for gains. They don’t hold value long term for the positive to outweigh negative.

    QB breaks pocket routes break down
    Routes break down then more times than not D has advantages
    Linemen make more mistakes
    The field shrinks D has advantages
    The field shrinks and the QB is more prone to mistakes


    If being out of the pocket was such a big advantage for mobile QB then teams would constantly call plays for it. Sure mobile QB will make plays outside the pocket but over time it’s more of a negative impact. Teams literally force mobile QB out of pockets and to one side because they have a advantage.
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  12. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrishansen View Post
    Because over time it produces a negative.
    I get what you are saying. But this is very old and outdated thinking. The rules have changed. QB's are protected like never before.

    Over time? Sure. Odds are you are gonna get your clocked cleaned at some point. But the here and now? First downs matter. They win games. Winning games can put your team in the playoffs. Then it's a chip and a chair.

    Josh Allen is a great example of what you are talking about. He hasn't been smart out of the pocket. He's been rocked many times. It will catch up with him if he doesn't wise up. A guy like Kyler Murray though, rarely ever takes a shot outside of the pocket. He's a master at getting down.

    The game is changing towards flag football fast. And QB's that can run are an added weapon to any NFL offense. Does that mean pocket passers with little to no run threat are dead in the NFL going forward? Of course not. But if you can have both? Who wouldn't want a Tom Brady type with wheels? Those are coming up through the pipeline. Not Tom Brady per se. But the type that can light it up from the pocket and outside the pocket with the legs. A couple are already starting games in the NFL. And will only get better .
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