Why do good players razz bad ones?

PatrickMcIrish · Aug 7, 2003

Let me tell you I have seen it so much I can't believe it. I always told the pro's they should do all they can to assist the house, not piss off the weak players and be disruptive. They shouldn't piss anyone off actually. Yes the house is earning but so are they, they should look at it more like a partnership. It was amazing to me how many times a pro would do things to disrupt the very room he was earning out of. Grind your hourly rate out and keep quiet!

I just do not get it and never heard a reasonable answer as to why this goes on. Pros should not only stay clear of trouble they should go out of their way to encourage others to do the same thing. Surely they can see the stupidity of creating problems and being a jerk to the weak players but it is very common it seems. WHY!!???

theswami · Aug 7, 2003

I'll never understand this either. With that said, I have expressed some dissatisfaction at times when a player sucks out on me in a huge pot. Usually, the comment is "How could you call me with that, I haven't bluffed in a year." This happens VERY infrequently and after my comment I just STFU and play cards.

PatrickMcIrish · Aug 8, 2003

Everyone gets miffed and says something like that from time to time but I was referring to an ongoing thing throughout the session. Not all of them of course but several pros I have played with in my day just seem to get a kick out of telling the losers how bad they played. And reminding them of it all night long.

Just curious what is a person like that thinking and why do they do it? Ego, pride, frustration, ignorance???

jwunderdog · Aug 8, 2003

Although I am not a big Poker player, I can see a strategic reason behind it. It can rattle the lesser player and take him out of his game. As we all are competitive even if you are the lesser player and know it, you still don't like to lose especilly to some asshole. THe Pro may just be goating you into a trap. Still in a low stakes game it makes no sense to me. JUSTMYOPINION

theswami · Aug 8, 2003

jwunderdog/mcirish-

Unfortunately, what I've seen happen is the "bad" player will often leave or tighten up his play since he does not want to show his bad cards. This reduces the profit making opportunities for everyone. There is no trap that could be set since the bad player is at the table to gamble. The one positive that could come from publicly critiquing another player is that the rest of the table may assume that you are a great player and will respect you therefore offering more opportunities to steal and bluff.

The pro/expert may be frustrated due to a bad beat but when he consistently "razzes" (is this a word) the other player it is a sign of inadequacy in other parts of his life, IMHO. In fact, look at Phil Helmuth who is probably is the most famous person who does this, he has admitted to being a loser in high school which affected his perspective on life and now that he is arguably one of the top 5 poker players in the world he acts like a "brat" because he can.

olddog · Aug 15, 2003

"...a "bad" player will often leave or tighten up his play since he does not want to show his bad cards. This reduces the profit making opportunities for everyone... The one positive that could come from publicly critiquing another player is that the rest of the table may assume that you are a great player and will respect you therefore offering more opportunities to steal and bluff. The pro/expert may be frustrated due to a bad beat but when he consistently "razzes" (is this a word) the other player it is a sign of inadequacy in other parts of his life, IMHO."

I totally agree with all these comments, but would add that expert players generally don't say anything until they have had many, many bad beats--then they can't hold back and explode, but generally shut up quickly. Back when I was learning, I had one expert/pro that I could outdraw on a consistent basis -- he remained silent through hundreds of hands and then exploded, then it was over.

I would add that if so-called 'pros' want to avoid bad play they should stay away from .50 and $1 tables. They go in there as a shark to feed on the minnows and then get pissed when the smaller fish gang up on them.

Also, it is just human nature for the big dog to take a nip out of a small dog every once in a while -- I have to guard against it myself when playing obviously inferior, but temporarily lucky, players.

lakerfan · Aug 19, 2003

The real question is why don't more casinos spread "razz"?

Seriously, I have seen more dead money run off by loud mouth players than I care to think about.

theswami · Aug 19, 2003

lakerfan...would you please explain the game of "razz"...feel free to do it in a different post if you feel the need to. thanks.

lakerfan · Aug 19, 2003

swami

Razz is seven card stud played for low. Straights and flushes don't hurt a low hand. Wheel would be best hand 5432A.

Regionally you might find it played where straights and flushes are bad. In that case 6432A is best hand. But this is not the norm.

theswami · Aug 20, 2003

thanks lakerfan

PatrickMcIrish · Aug 22, 2003

Razz is known as lowball as well. The way he said is common A-2-3-4-5 makes the perfect low but have also seen the Ace count against you as well, best low hand is 2-3-4-5-7.

Only lowball I really like is draw. Big dealer game as the advantage in going last is huge.

bagoftricks · Aug 30, 2003

Although i do not agree with the flaming at the table. If you cannot handle some ego-loaded internet table jockey you really should be playing at all. It is not a game for friends.

Woody0 · Aug 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick McIrish:
Razz is known as lowball as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem, as lakerfan explained razz is 7 card stud played for low while lowball is 5 card draw played for low. Both forms are verging on extinction.

In answer to your original question, I think those players let their emotions get into their game too much. I know its not easy when you're having a night of poor cards, finally get a prime pocket pair and lose on the river to a weak suited holding making a runner runner flush. If you can't say "good hand" without sarcasm keep your mouth shut. You don't want the guy to leave or berate him into tighter play.

LUCKYLINZ · Sep 11, 2003

There's not much excuse for rudeness, in my opinion, whether a player is "good or bad". I don't think anyone has a lock on manners no matter how they play.

If you really are a good player you better count on getting "drawn out on" a lot. Since being a better player means having the best of it going in, it's only natural that a certain percentage of the time you're going to lose it on the end. At least this was Bobby Baldwin's perspective.

If you can't handle in find something else to do!

Why do good players razz bad ones?

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