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03-17-2003, 12:58 AM
I wanna know if there's any system out there that anyone uses to manage their bankroll?
For example, if I start with a 1K bankroll...
for the remainder of the NBA season, should there be a maximum amount I should be wagering or a maximum amount of games to be played per day?
Trying to find the most effecient way to play without depleting my bank roll in 1 week. I'd like to know if anyone has any stratgies or disiplines they could share.
i can tell you what works for me, but we all have different opinions on this subject.
first of all, you can either like a game, or not.
betting 100 $ on one game, and 1000$ on another, makes no sense.
occasionally, i do bet more on some games, but thats not a 10 to 1 ratio, more like 3 to 2 ratio.
my bets are for approximately 3% of the bankrol.
try not to play parlays, teasers and props, and never chase your losses.
never play teasers on basketball totals, never.
if you are on a cold streak, take a few days off.
some people think they are more successifull when playing a lot of games.
i do not think so. i usually play 1-3 games per day in nba.
you'll do just fine.
hi don marco ,
I agree with your opinion,I m using a similar rating for US sports.For the european sports I might bet 1000$ on one bet and 100$ on another,as situation there is completely different.
I agree with Don Marco, your bankroll can live forever if you stay disciplined, and you can collect every once in awhile after a hot streak. Its like free money. Play short odds, slow down when you're losing. Regarding volume: Sometimes, particulary in college where there may be 80 games to chose from on a particular day, you'll see 5 or 6 concurrent games that you want to play. Go ahead and play them, but buy some cheap insurance with a parlay that goes against your picks, just enough to recoup most of your losses if they all go down.
Thanks Don Marco.
That's exactly what I was looking for. I've been playing 5% of my bankroll trying to keep consistent with my plays. (instead of trying to pound games that I think i might like)
So taking time off seems to be the recomendation. Great.
Gridster-
Thanks for your input as well. However what did you mean by "short odds"? Something like -1.5 or +3 instead of a gaudy -14.5?
Thanks all for you input. It's very helpful.
Basically I started the NBA season last Friday. Had a nice opening and went 2-0 & 4-1. (4-1 posted on the RX). But then I hit consecutive bad days Sat & Sun going 1-2 then 0-4.
Definite time off couldn't hurt. I'll continue to:
- play at the 3-5% ratio of my bankroll to keep my plays consistent
- keep my plays within a max of 3-5 games.
We'll see how it goes. Thanks again.
How good of a handicapper are you?
If your last three wagers lost to the number by an average of -30 points per game, I'd consider a wager of 2 cents per game until you improve your handicapping.
If you're confident with your handicapping and have documented proof, then I'd wager 10 - $20 per game, doing a review of my handicapping as I went along.
Most handicappers merely accept a loss then plunge into the next days card rather than doing a review of why they picked a side which lost by a large ats margin.
Doing a review of a matchup after the game has been played may provide a clue as to where you went wrong or why you were right.
Some of these clues are reoccurring.
Money Management,imo, means minimal exposure of your bankroll.
Actually 3peet, I was talking about sticking with sides or totals, where its 11/10 odds, or money lines near even. Basically, what Marco was saying about avoiding teasers and parlays. I wouldn't advise anyone not to lay or take a lot of points, thats between you and the linemaker.
I was in the same boat 2 weeks ago as you are now. Made some good bets, but lost on freak plays. I took 4 days off then hit big this week. Sometimes you can put a losing streak behind you just by doing nothing.
One problem with the 3% rule you can be above 53% winners and still lose money if you look at your bankroll every night and bet 3%. The toughest part about money management is knowing when too increase your wagers or decrease them.My rule of thumb is do not increase or decrease you wager amounts for an entire season of a sport. Here is may reasoning behind it. say you start with $1000.00 you bet 10 games at $50 a game you win all 10 now you have $1500. If you bet 5% again you are wagering $75 a game you lose your next 9 games at $75 a game your bankroll is now down to $757 and you won 53%.
You have 53% winners yet you lost $240.Let a whole season play out so all the good and bad bounces are at the same amount.
FORWHATITSWORTH
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Let a whole season play out so all the good and bad bounces are at the same amount.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...and therin lies the disipline to soIt is so tempting to pound a game you really feel good at.
Thanks all for your input. It's exactly the info i was looking for. Perhaps I might as well find a hot capper and ride their plays for the remainder of the short season and keep the wagers at the same amount
As for my capping skills?......let's just say I trust my capping skills better between the months of August to January.
Thanks all!
sound advice by don, take heed, i myself might bet 5/1 or slightly more of my normal bet, but i gotta feel strongly about a game, and not just feel, have a lot of angles on it, but remember it's always a bet and you are dealing with probabilities not certainties, and most of the time when something can go wrong it usually does, besides i think that when you overstake a game you got the pitfall of wishfull thinking, i.e. more often than not you want a certain outcome than you accurately predict an outcome.
And go through your bets from time to time, it has helped me a lot to review what i bet a month, or a week, and use hindsight to improve both my capping and moneymanagement. I dont ususally bet flat and dont go around with a calculator rationing my bets, i use a more intuitive style, based on the principles that don's mentioned (%of bankroll etc.) but not strictly adhering to it.
Besides that money management goes hand in hand with learning how to keep your wits together on a losing streak. That is, you ll never go broke going into a super market to buy your groceries and bread, unless you are a compulsive buyer, but you can go broke gambling. Does that mean that in the first case you have a hang of money management while in the second you lose it for no reason? Obviously not. It means that buying groceries is much less of a taxing activity to your nerves, so manage to stay afloat and keep you head together and you ll manage your money alright.
Also, (which happens to be a note to self as well), as someone once said, very clearly stated:
dont be greedy, undisciplined or stupid.
that's a recipe for disaster if any of these ingredients are not in the stew.
There is a lot of great advise in this thread. Personally, I can't stress enough having balls to shelf the ego and always remember once you place a bet it is out of your hands. You have no control over what is going to happen in the game. So why then should we get so emotional about our wagors if we watch the game on t.v.? Why then will we let our emotions of one game effect our next bet? Bankroll managment should help protect us from going bankrupt but what happens when we lose 6 or 7 or more in a row?
I cannot stress enough how one must be strong emotionally to deal with the swings of winning and losing. Since each of us is different, we need to find what will work to keep us balanced while winning and losing. Some people feel a need to watch games to get that "rush", or, "to have fun". Personally, I can go someplace else and have fun. Maybe some of you need to learn how to do that.
Bankroll managment is only a small part of what we need to keep in check, but it is an important part. If I'm on a losing skid I will just stop for a few days. I won't even look at the lines or update the scores. I know I need some time to clear my head. I'll go do something I've never done before or go someplace I've never been. The mind and body tend to recycle after doing that and you start to look at things different. Your focus changes and the "rest" is good.
This theory is the same as when people take off for a weekend after a couple of hard weeks work. We can beat ourselves up during a losing streak and continue to chase money and be miserable trying to figure out what is going wrong or just stop what we are doing for awhile and focus on something else.
In my opinion all systems and bankroll management are useless unless you factor in the psychological aspects of how to handle a losing streak and winning streak. To me, this is a lot harder than picking winners.
In closing, just remember to do a little soul searching in what it will take for you to be successful in the game of sports wagors. It's o.k. to get emotional about the games...but it's not o.k. for that emotion to affect our next play. "Check yo self before you wreck yo self" Best of luck in your ride...Stalker
there is a lot of good advice here on dealing with a bad streak. I think it is equally important to handle a good one well.
The dizzy feeling of success when you win 5 or 6 on the bounce can be very dangerous for the quality of your next bet. It's the equivalent of hitting 5 or 6 winning hands in Blackjack then hitting to hard 17 against a 9 because you are now so sure you'll get a 3 or 4.
The ideal betting head is a cool one. not one that thinks he can predict every game, not one that thinks every bet will turn to dust. That is the challenge, keeping the cool head.
I just read one of the replies to one of my posts and I just want to clarify. I do not bet the same amount on every game it ranges between 1-7 units but the amounts of each unit do not change for the entire season and whether I am on a good streak or bad streak it has nothing to do with what unit amount I place on a game.
A quote I always come back to when I am either really hot or cold is
"you're never as good as you think you are when you hot, or as bad when you're not."
Remember that the next time you are dieing to increase or decrease your next bet based on how hot or cold you are.
DON MARCO........good sound advice...
i really want to comment on what STALKER DUDE SAYS..
he is one of the few people i have seen that realize how important the phsycological aspect of gambling is...if you think its all about numbers and value........my friend you can end up just as busted as the next guy.
lets face it, in order to be a successful gambler you have to be disciplined...the majority of gamblers arent...where does it usually show? chasing loses is by far the biggest mistake most people make.
best way to stay disciplined? make your bets....and go on about your day ....dont watch the games, like stalker says you become emotional if you watch them....treat gambling like a job and set a loss limit and stick to it...
but im going to be honest...the majority of you wont be able to do this, because like most people that started out gambling they did it for the THRILL....and that stays with you.
if your number #1, goal is to make money, and your not disciplined enough...the cold hard facts is that you cant do it with gambling....
i should have said........most gamblers know they should be disciplined..........but actually being able to show discpline is another story
I must say, this has been quite an informative and valuable thread. (for my part atleast)
I've already learned to take time off during cold streaks. (Very benifical) I'm also betting no more than 4-5 wagers per play. Thus far I've remainded consistent in my wager placements 3-4% of bankroll. I have yet to increase any of my wagers since I'd like to maintain the consistency and better yet the roll I'm on.
Thanks to everyone (Don Marco, Dime, Gridster, JWun, Pesky, Stalker) and everyone else that may have been missed.
Again this thread has taught me a ton of things! More importantly...it's kept me in the green! Hopefully I can maintain a sense of disipline once playoffs roll around.
Thanks 2 everyone!
-Peet
This article was written by Ted Sevransky, aka "Buzkil" or "Teddy Covers". Ted is a well-respected handicapper and operates the paysite,
No Url's Please
Ted is a very good writer and this article is just one of many which can be found at his site.
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Five secrets that professional handicappers know that every recreational bettor should learn
Most casual bettors don’t make a profit from their sportsbetting hobby. This includes bettors who are relatively sharp as well as those who couldn’t pick a winner if their lives depended on it. That’s not a horrible thing either – if every bettor won, sportsbooks would be going belly up far more often than they do, and bettors would run out of places to play. And many bettors really don’t care very much about earning a long term profit. They like to have some action on games as a form of recreation or excitement, not as an investment decision. Many of these type of bettors are far more interested in TV games than anything else, and they tend to bet more on bigger games, like the Super Bowl or NCAA Tournament.
Much of the industry jargon considers money management as important as picking winners, if not more so. And it certainly is. But throwing around buzzwords like ‘money management’ and describing esoteric concepts like ‘isolate a percentage of bankroll’ and ‘positive expectation bets’ really doesn’t help the fortunes of most recreational bettors. If you, personally, are content with betting for entertainment purposes only than this essay will serve little purpose. But if you wish to be a successful sports bettor, even as an amateur, and earn a profit from your betting over an extended period of time, here are some tips that should help you in that quest.
1) Don’t bet into bad numbers.
Professional handicappers recognize the value of the half point. On the average college basketball Saturday, for example, there are at least ½ dozen games that are won or lost against the spread by a point or less. If he bet on the game, the pro bettor will be on the right side of just about every one of those decisions. He’ll either getting the push when others lost, or he’ll get the win when others pushed. (I use ‘he’ because, to be honest, every professional sports bettor that I know is a man – this is a very segregated industry in that regard). The pro will take the extra time to shop around for the best number at multiple sportsbooks. He’ll have accounts that are funded in enough places to ensure that when he finds the line that he is looking for, he’ll be able to place the bet. And he’ll have an idea of which direction the line is likely to move, enabling him to bet early or late, depending on which time offers an advantageous number. The pro wins by a half point far more often than he loses by the hook. Making a modest 20 bets a week (1000 a year, a number that is on the low side for most professionals), it is not unusual to gain an extra 10 or 15 wins a year and another 10 or 15 pushes just by betting into good numbers. Assuming the bettor is betting a modest 2% of his bankroll on any given play, those 20 or 30 favorable decisions translates into a 40-60% swing in his return on his sportsbetting investment. That’s not chump change, folks, it’s hard earned profit gained one half point at a time!
2) Make more straight bets and fewer parlays.
Professional bettors make the vast majority of their bets as straight bets, not as parlays. For amateurs, the number is closer to 50:50, and there are many, many amateurs who rarely straight bet at all. But the straight bet is the pro’s bread and butter. Professionals are satisfied with the return on investment from a 3-2 day, or a 12-8 week. They are in it for the long haul, not always looking for the quick score that parlays provide. Amateurs are often lured by the big paydays that winning parlays provide, conveniently forgetting that a season largely consisting of steady 2-1 type days will be even more profitable than the big hits that parlays provide even in a good overall season. Straight bettors never curse the 4-1 days – when they pick more winners than losers – because they make a profit every time, while parlay bettors don’t. There’s a reason that every sportsbook in Las Vegas has their parlay cards prominently displayed – frankly, parlays pay the bills at most joints here in town. That’s not to say pro bettors never go for the longshot score, but when they do, they do it for a considerably lesser percentage of their bankroll, and they do it in conjunction with their straight bets, not in lieu of them.
3) Concentrate more on box scores and less on final scores.
It’s easy to look at the final score of a game and make all kinds of false assumptions. This team got killed, that team gave ‘em all they could handle. But without reading game recaps and looking at box scores, you really have no idea of what took place, and what kind of current form the teams you are examining are in. It’s key to handicap games again, after the games are over. What happened that you expected to happen, and what was a surprise? Which things are likely to repeat themselves, and which are something of an anomaly? Here’s an example. The Pistons play the Bulls at home, as nine point favorites, but win by only seven, 97-90. But looking at the box score, it’s clear that Detroit dominated for most of the game. The Pistons won the rebounding battle and forced the Bulls into turnovers. They led by double digits at halftime and after three quarters. Bu the Bulls hit some late shots in garbage time and made the final score closer than the game was. On that same night, the Raptors are nine point favorites to the Nuggets, and win by that same 97-90 margin. But the box score here indicates a whole different story. The Raptors trailed throughout this game, but got hot in the 4th quarter to steal the win. Toronto made an uncharacteristic 27-30 from the free throw line, and hit ten three pointers, while Denver shot just 4-19 in the 4th quarter. By examining the box scores you can recognize that the Pistons are in better form than the Raptors and/or the Nuggets are in better form than the Bulls, making your future wagers involving those teams more likely to be successful, even though the final scores of the two games were exactly the same.
4) Take advantage of value.
Linesmakers have a pretty good idea of which way the money is going to flow once they hang their opening numbers. And amateur bettors are a big part of this, falling in love with ‘public’ teams, betting them over and over again. In college sports, these ‘public’ teams are usually in the Top 25, from a major conference – well known schools. In the pro sports, they are the hottest teams, teams at the top of their respective divisions or conferences. The professional bettor will recognize this public bias, notice that the lines are inflated for many of the best teams in the country, and either bet against many of the good teams or pass on their games entirely. Instead, the pro’s concentrate much more on backing the ‘good but not great’ type of squads, teams that have fallen underneath the public’s collective radar, as well as fading some of the mediocre type squads that are in poor current form. The pros bet against Top 25 clubs far more often than they back ‘em – that’s where the value is, catching six points with an underdog that should only be getting four. It’s equally important to recognize when the linesmakers have priced you out of a play. Kentucky and Arizona have been red hot in college basketball for the last couple of months, and they are the top two teams in the whole country right now. While few bettors of any ilk like to step in front of juggernauts like these, they also recognize that the time to back these two schools has come and gone – there’s no value on their respective sides. Both clubs had great records against the spread at one point this season, but neither is above .500 vs. the number here in February.
5) Be smart when betting your streaks.
It’s one of the most common mistakes that amateurs make, and it’s quite possibly the most costly. They press their losses, raising the stakes to get back to even off a losing week/streak. Pro bettors know that there will be times when you lose more than you win. Hopefully, those times are few and far between, but inevitably, they will happen to everybody. Rather than raising the stakes during those times when you are having a bad run, the pro lowers his stakes, conserving bankroll while waiting for things to turn around. There’s no ‘double or nothing’ attitude on Monday Night Football games for the pro. Conversely, the pro knows that winning streaks are the time to press your bets, not the time to pull back with a conservative approach to their recent profit. When a ‘capper is in good form and good rhythm, with his read on the games in solid form and the bounces generally falling in his direction, he’s not afraid to raise his stakes a bit, making larger plays when the percentages are in his favor (positive expectation wagers) It sounds so basic – don’t chase losses, ride your winning streaks, but few amateur bettors are able to maintain an even keel during periods of higher rates than the norm of both successes and of failures
[This message was edited by The General on 03-29-03 at 02:21 PM.]
The amount of money that you have as your bankroll plays a significant part of your strategy. How easily replaceable is it? At lower levels you may be able to get away with 5% wagers, but it is a very BAD habit to get into. Over a large enough sample size you WILL lose 10 wagers in a row, WILL. That is 50% of BR in a VERY short period of time. I dont have the binomial distribution in front of me, but I believe over a sample size of 500 you will lose 7 wagers in a row appx 3 times over 500 events. That is why it is so important to limit exposure on a single event- anything can happen. In the past I averaged 3% per wager, but over the years as BR grew I have settled into an average wager of 1% or less. Sure, I increase wager size on SOME events, such as the playoffs as a whole, but history shows me that I average better than 59% on playoff wagers, so increased risk increases profit. I have also increased the volume of plays over the years, from 2 or 3 big NFL games starting out, to 80% of sides and about 50% of totals on the NFL now. This strategy is not for everyone, but the way I see it, if you have an edge against the house you should apply it as many times as possible- I dont wait for 2 or 3 points. I eased into this strategy with painstaking recordkeeping. I handicapped games that I didnt put money on, with my opinion WRITTEN DOWN so that it meant something, to see if wagering on more events was a benefit or a liability. I soon realized that a winning % of 55% over a couple of thousand events was a lot better than 58-60% on several hundred, and worked out a strategy to minimize risk (1%). Just about every year I lose 17 or 18 out of 20 during one point, but at 1% it doesnt matter- if after 1000 I bank on 540. I also think wagering on a lot of events helps me psychologically- I dont have a lot vested in a single event. It helps keep me from pounding a single game- every event against the spread pays off the SAME. It's gotten to the point where I think it is MUCH easier to win 11 out of 20 than to win on a single event.
I think the best thing to do is to limit your wager size to 2% or less, it's TOO HARD to learn to do it later. If you want to do it for FUN, then dont worry about wager size, just set aside an amount each week that you can LOSE, and have FUN. If you want to make some cash, then you MUST approach this as any other market- buy low/sell high/acquire as many shares as possible/diversify. I havent seen very many people who practice bad money management at the dollar level turn things around at the dime level. The sports market industry thrives upon the weakness of human nature, the numbers are secondary- otherwise this would be a lot more difficult. Just my thoughts, and I've got a lot of them.
[This message was edited by ATX on 04-08-03 at 06:02 PM.]
3%-5% of bankroll is good. I try to do that but I have a square tendency to do a few parlays for 1%-5% every now and then.
Stay from parlays when you are down.
When you are up, you can chance a parlay.
Never Chase a loss ESPECIALLY on the same day/night. Wait a day and still see if you feel the need to chase a loss.
If you feel the need to bet bigger than what you usually do, do not watch the game.
Whenever possible, do not watch the games that you bet. Only watch games in which you do not have a bet. I know this is hard but it will make your stress levels less and wont allow you to chase losses as much.
Never bet on your favorite teams. No matter what you say or think, you have a biased towards your favorite team and/or players. F*cking, Wizards, Caps, and Skins! If only I had 'this feeling' on them, I might be doing well! ha!
jateeluv,
I disagree about watching games you wager on. I feel it is imperative to watch to see if the game turns out the way you expected it. Did the team turn the ball over as you expected? Did the defense stop the run like you thought they would? Did the team you wagered against make uncharacteristic mistakes like you thought they would in this particular situation?
I feel there a lot of nuances that you can't pick up from the boxscore. Watch the games you wager on. If they lose, hopefully you can find out why they did and correct your mistake.
Big Lou
Lou, it depends on how many games that you wager on. I have videotaped every NFL and NCAA game (available) in the past and watched them, but it really led to information overload- it didnt help me at all. But I may wager on 20 or more sides and totals in the NCAA and usually wager on 80% or more of NFL games, and a ton of 2nd halves, so watching all of them isnt really feasible for volume investors.
The lines are based on boxscores (more or less), so I feel that type of information is most relevant. You can pick up additional angles from watching the game, such as "a team that has quit". But these types of nuances comprise only one angle that I will look at out of maybe a dozen for a single game. I do feel that a team's playing style is a very significant nuance when handicapping totals in the NFL. I was kicking myself for not going higher on the PITT/TENN playoff total. Keep in mind when watching the games that some teams are Jekyll and Hyde- they change drastically from week to week. One of the reasons that 11 out of 20 takes so much work.
Jateeluv,
check out this thread on page 3: http://therxforum.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...5&m=2333090686
if you increase your wager size every day after a winning day then your needed win% increases for the next day. I typically wait until I accumulate 15% profit before increasing my wager size from 1 to 1.15 etc. I tend to be streaky when I am winning so I chose 15% over waiting for 20%. When I am losing I dont change my wager size unless I accumulate 15% in losses (BR of 85%). A lot of it is touch and go (especially if you have 20% of BR oustanding per day).
ATX,
Boxscore are very important. I hope it doesn't look like I was trying to say they aren't. But I do like to watch the games for the reasons stated earlier. I'm definitely not a volume better, as I only handicap the NFL, so I do tend to keep a close eye on the games I'm on. The only games that are recorded and kept for future review are as many Week One contests that I can record between the dish and cable TV and all of the playoff games every year.
You are right on about teams drastically changing from week to week. (The Saints beat Tampa Bay TWICE but lost to Cincinnati). I never wager on a team thinking they will play badly because they had a poor outing last week. That's what the general public loves to do, backing a team that played great last week or fading a team that played poorly.
Big Lou
Very good point there Lou. Always a sign of who's a pro and who's not, public never taking into account regression to the mean, while pros always do. I ll even bet a team who's doing badly if i can get a good price on them (a public biased line that is) and i ve capped their team strenght to be above their recent performances. Of course it's a tricky thing and sometimes a team that has not been performing well, IS actually not as good as one thinks it is, but most of the time outcomes of the game are more a matter of chance (the proverbial bounce of the ball, bad days for the players, other chance factors), and the teams regress back to their mean, their actual capabilities that is, and when they are not "hot" you can find some great betting value with them.
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