Florida a big market for gambling

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Another Day, Another Dollar
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Floridians love to gamble.

In fact, Sunshine State residents rank ninth in the country when it comes to visiting casinos, ''a surprise, given the lack of convenient gaming destinations for Florida residents,'' according to a 2003 study by Harrah's Entertainment.

It's also a surprise since Florida voters have defeated three referendums since 1979 to bring casino gambling to the state, the last one in 1994.

''Some people like it but don't care to have it close to home,'' said Judy Cornelius, associate director of the Institute for the Study of Gambling and Commercial Gaming at the University of Nevada-Reno.

Like it or not, Las Vegas-scale casinos have arrived in Florida with today's opening of the ritzy $279 million Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood and its slightly smaller but no less glitzy sister Hard Rock in Tampa, which debuted in March.

The Hard Rocks cannot by law offer such full Vegas-style casino games and gaming equipment as blackjack and slot machines, but they've got all the amenities and flash of the desert destination.

And they're expected to be a hit in a state that has turned down big-time commercial casinos but that abounds in avid gamblers, especially in South Florida, where residents frequent seven dog tracks, horse tracks and jai-alai frontons, gambling ''cruises to nowhere,'' the Miccosukee Indian casino and the Seminoles' old bingo hall, next to the flashy Hard Rock.

`COMPETITIVE MARKET'

''This is probably the most competitive market in the country,'' said C. Kenneth Dunn, president of Calder Race Course.

It may get more competitive. For the second time since 2001, local tracks and frontons are pushing to get a question on the November ballot about installing ''video-lottery terminals'' in their facilities. The machines are similar to the electronic bingo and slot-style machines in American Indian casinos.

''We're state licensed and pay taxes,'' said John Knox, general manager of Dania Jai-Alai. ''Something needs to be done to level the playing field with the Indians and the cruise boats,'' gambling activities that are not regulated by the state.

Some say Florida is shooting itself in the foot by not readily expanding gaming, especially since the Seminoles operate casinos anyway. The 11 states that have legalized casino gambling reap hundreds of millions of dollars from fees that American Indians don't pay for licensing and slot machines as well as taxes on revenue.

''Florida's getting the gambling, but it's not getting any money out of it,'' said Michael K. Evans, chairman of Boca Raton consultancy Evans, Carroll & Associates.

Opponents, however, call that a small price to pay for avoiding the social ills, such as compulsive gambling, that casinos encourage or the bureaucratic nightmare that regulating them creates.

Once allowed in, gambling changes a community, and not for the better, said former Miami Beach Mayor Seymour Gelber, who was active in promoting the nay vote in 1994.

''It would take over all the hotels, create traffic. We'd have slot machines in grocery stores. Who needs that?'' Gelber said. ``We'd have the same type of situation as Las Vegas, which was built to be a gambling empire, and it is.''

The possibility of allowing the likes of Trump and MGM Mirage to set up in Florida appears minute, at least for the short term. Gov. Bush is opposed to more gaming in the state and last month even vetoed a measure to permit charities to sell scratch-off bingo tickets.

GOVERNOR AGAINST IT

''The governor's position is very clear: He's opposed to any expansion of gambling,'' spokesman Jacob DiPietre said.

And that, the parimutuel industry says, is unfair. Industry representatives say they've already been harmed by the different regulations for American Indians, who allow patrons to smoke on premises. Under a state law that went into effect last summer, customers cannot smoke at parimutuels, restaurants or other public places.

''We saw business decline 10 percent since the ban went into effect,'' Calder's Dunn said, ``and we have not recovered.''

But the process to offer more gambling options at racetracks and frontons won't be easy and involves several steps. The wording of the question is awaiting approval from the state Supreme Court. Backers will then have to submit the necessary 488,722 voter signatures to get the measure on the ballot.

That question would ask voters statewide if they would allow Miami-Dade and Broward voters to hold a separate referendum. And the local referendum would seek permission to allow the gaming machines at the seven parimutuel locations in the two counties.

WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR

If both votes pass, the state Legislature would then have to enact the legal framework. The earliest that the gambling machines could be installed would be the end of 2005.

''We have an extremely good chance to have it enacted state and countywide,'' said Daniel Adkins, general manager of the Hollywood Greyhound Track, who is leading the move.

Voters in both counties have approved casinos in previous referendums.

''People here are not opposed to it,'' Gelber said, ``but any move to expand gambling won't succeed because there are people elsewhere in the state who are purists, who oppose any movement out of religious, moralistic reasons.''

Whatever happens, Florida is a key market. All eyes in the gaming industry will be watching closely.

''If the opportunity arose, I can assure you we'd certainly be interested,'' said Gary Thompson, spokesman for Harrah's Entertainment in Las Vegas.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8635502.htm?1c
 

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yep...take FISHMAC for example...he is probably the reason behind the person writing this article
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I think I won fish some more money as im sure he had me as odds to first post in this thread
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A couple casinos I attend regularly here in Florida are nicer and more lucrative than 80% of the casinos in Vegas.

Dante- Sorry, no bets on you today.
 

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Florida (and especially Jeb Bush) can suck my ass.

See also my comments here. No difference between California, Alabama and Florida as far as the mentality goes.

FISH

Asked you in the Financial News forum a few days ago but didn't get an answer: you still doing the Wednesday night thing?


Phaedrus
 

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On occassions yes, but not on a regular basis anymore.

When we do, I am not publicizing it anymore.
 

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Um ... okay ... did ya have an *incident*
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I ask because I keep having to run to Tampa lately and sometimes on Wednesdays; thought I might try to get together down there with you and the other Tampa-area Rx'ers, but if you're not doing it anymore no biggie.


Phaedrus
 

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Perhaps I could interest you in $1-2 Hold'em game with a 10% rake, $5 maximum!! LMFAO!!

The HARD ROCK actually has a room of 20+ tables........ all full and spreading crappy worthless games such as this.
 

Old Fart
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I had Florida figured ALL wrong. All those retirees living in the Sunshine state and they DON"T want casinos!! Sounds weird to me. Looking at the bus loads of older folks in Atlantic City that arrive by the HERDS years ago!
Mississippi--not Florida
Must be just for the poorer folks!
Hard to figure!
 

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However, there are some casino boats here that are downright AWESOME.

One in fact that I would list in my personal TOP TEN of all-time best casinos.............and I have been to basically every state that has a casino.
 

Old Fart
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I worked in Northern Florida---many many decades ago . (Only for 6 months) I didn't like it too well then and I don't think I'd be crazy about it today.

The boats sound good however.
Fish--I'll still root for your DRays!
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Its all about the interests that have gaming already. The lottery and the tribes don't want competition. The boats are making some ports viable and a lot of anti-gamers believe in out of sight, out of mind. As it is now you can get just about as much gambling access in Southern Florida as you have anywhere, the boats, the tribes, a 20 minute flight to the Bahamas...it is well served compared to other parts of the south.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Give, Fish.

Tell us what boat you're reefering to...we will check it out asap.
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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What is the general opinion on the percentage of people winning long term when playing casino games only onshore or boat? I think I know but would like any feedback.
 

RX Senior
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i dont know, but the BJ on the boats offer deep penetration on a 6 deck game with hand shuffles. its an awesome game. they will deal until they dont have enough cards for a hand probably becuase suhuffling all the time sucks. and that's the way it should be IMO. rare to find that inland. i think the layout on a boat sort of discourages any signifigant expert team play.

I heard the trumps casino in Indiana just recently went to weak penetration and no longer offers surrender went from being a great spot to play BJ at to a very bad one after getting beat up by a team not too long ago.

It's the good teams like the one from MIT, moving around in droves wiping out good games all over the world. seymon wouldnt be offering a seminar on it in his early 30's if it was still as easy to "get the money out" (in his words).

its getting harder and harder to find good games but the casino boats are usually pretty good. of course youre only going to have 3-4 hours of playing time another thing that does not cater to team play, but its great for the individual player or going with friends/ family.

if i still lived in florida, id be getting on that boat leaving clearwater and new port richy once a week like i did before. i had many great sessions, and it is usually not a stressful deal to do well. plus the buffet and entertainment is usually pretty good
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Rob- Overall, the boats on the eastern seaboard are much better.

If you liked the Port Richey boat, you would love some boats I would take you on.
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I only live 26 miles from the Port Richey boat, but drive 125+ miles to visit the other boats.
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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Florida voters could be asked to decide whether to allow slot machines at parimutuels in South Florida.


TALLAHASSEE - The Florida Supreme Court cleared the way Thursday for a ballot initiative to allow slot machines at parimutuels in Miami-Dade and Broward counties.

Supporters still must collect thousands of signatures, but even opponents predicted voters will see the measure on the Nov. 2 ballot.

Floridians for a Level Playing Field, a coalition of three South Florida harness and greyhound tracks backing the proposed state constitutional amendment, already has more than half the 488,722 signatures it needs to get on the ballot.

Coalition chairman Daniel Adkins said the organization is sure it will get there.

"I can't tell you exactly how long it will take, but we ramped up our efforts two weeks ago and then again yesterday," Adkins said Thursday. "We certainly will have the signatures."

The Orlando group No Casinos Inc. criticized the court's ruling and vowed to fight the measure.

"Our sense is we're going to have to do what we do every eight to 10 years in Florida, which is pull this organization out of the cardboard boxes and remind Florida voters why they are against gambling," spokesman John Sowinski said. "It's the wrong social and economic policy for the state."

This would be the fourth time in three decades that Florida voters have considered allowing a type of casino gambling, though this year's measure is less ambitious than those proposed in 1978, 1986 and 1994. Those measures sought full-scale casinos.

The same parimutuels coalition pushed a similar initiative in 2002, but the Florida Supreme Court threw out the earlier effort, which would have allowed slot machines at parimutuels statewide. The court said it failed to meet the required "single-subject" test.

The coalition says Florida's dog and horse tracks and jai-alai frontons can't compete with the fast-growing, unregulated Indian casinos or the off-shore "cruises to nowhere."

The new proposal is simpler in scope and subject. It would ask voters statewide to agree to allow the county governments of Miami-Dade and Broward to hold local elections that would legalize slot machines at seven parimutuels. If the machines are taxed, the revenue would be dedicated to education.

The court's previous opinion helped guide the coalition in writing the new amendment, said Adkins, vice president of the Hollywood Greyhound Track. Other coalition members are Broward's Pompano harness track and Miami's Flagler greyhound track.

Other South Florida facilities that could benefit: Broward's Gulfstream horse track, Dania Jai-Ali, Miami-Dade's Calder horse track and Miami's Jai-Alai.

"I think it is absolutely essential because of the fact that Calder is sitting 10 minutes away from the largest Indian casino in the state of Florida, Hard Rock Casino," said Calder's Tallahassee lobbyist Wilbur Brewton. "We need to have alternative gaming."

The Supreme Court said its ruling is not an endorsement of the proposal.

Under Florida law, the court can block a citizen initiative from the ballot only if it violates the single-subject rule or if the ballot summary is unclear.

While Florida has a history of rejecting expanded gambling, it's unclear how the new measure will fare because it is limited to two Florida counties and existing parimutuels there.

The 1994 measure, which would have authorized a limited number of casinos in nine counties across the state, failed 62 percent to 38 percent statewide and by a wide margin in nearly every county. But it easily passed in Broward and was defeated by 2,000 votes in Miami-Dade.

Gov. Jeb Bush opposes expanded gambling and said Thursday he would vote against the measure if it makes the ballot.

"I'm not going to spend a lot of time campaigning against it but I will do my part to tell people that it will hurt tourism and increase crime," Bush said. He won't do more because he's busy with his brother's re-election bid, he said.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/14/State/Court_sets_stage_for_.shtml
 

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Fish on a boat that has gambling, kind of goes together like peanut butter and jelly.
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