Does anyone else find this scary???

More goodies for the FBI thanks to the Patriot Act! Asscroft and his anti-gambling crusade could easily abuse this and start harassing gamblers and people that just talk about it in forums such as this.

ACLU battles FBI over ISP customer data
Lawsuit challenges right to gather information secretly
The Associated Press
Updated: 7:07 p.m. ET April 28,2004

WASHINGTON - The American Civil Liberties Union is challenging the FBI’s use of expanded powers to compel Internet service providers to turn over information about their customers or subscribers.

A lawsuit challenging secret FBI national security letters was filed April 6 in U.S. District Court in New York but not made public until Wednesday because of its extraordinary sensitivity.

The FBI can issue national security letters, or NSLs, without a judge’s approval in terrorism and espionage cases. They require telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses to produce highly personal records about their customers or subscribers.

People who receive the letters are prohibited by law from disclosing to anyone that they did so. Because of this legal gag order, the ACLU was forced to reach an agreement with the Justice Department before a heavily edited version of the lawsuit could be unsealed.

“We believe the public has a right to know much more about this lawsuit,” said Ann Beeson, ACLU associate legal director.

Justice Department and FBI officials declined comment on the case.

The lawsuit challenges as unconstitutional one of several types of national security letters used by the FBI in counterintelligence and counterterrorism investigations.

The letters in question involve records held by Internet service providers about their clients, including billing information, kinds of merchandise the clients buy online and the e-mail addresses of the clients’ associates. The co-plaintiff in the case is identified only as an “Internet access business,” with other identification blacked out.

Patriot Act loosens rules
The ACLU lawsuit contends that the USA Patriot Act, an antiterrorism law passed shortly after the 2001 terror attacks, expanded the FBI’s power to use national security letters by deleting parts of an earlier law requiring that there be some suspicion that the subject of the probe was linked to spying or terrorism.

“As a result of the Patriot Act, the FBI may now use NSLs to obtain sensitive information about innocent individuals who have no connection to espionage or terrorism,” the lawsuit says.

An FBI guidance document to its field offices acknowledges that the Patriot Act “greatly broadened” FBI authority to use these letters in relevant investigations. But the document says that FBI supervisors must exercise care in their use, particularly because that part of the Patriot Act is set to expire in 2005 unless renewed by Congress.

“Supervisors should keep this in mind when deciding whether or not a particular use of NSL authority is appropriate,” the FBI document says.

Suit challenges veil of secrecy
The lawsuit contends that NSLs are unconstitutional because of the gag order, because a recipient has no way of challenging their validity and because the government is not forced to justify its reasons for not notifying the target about the records being sought.

The ACLU has also filed a lawsuit challenging another part of the Patriot Act that allows the FBI to obtain a variety of records and documents in terrorism and espionage cases by obtaining a warrant from the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

President Bush has been pushing Congress to renew all of the Patriot Act before it expires next year, arguing that it is one of law enforcement’s best tools in preventing another catastrophic terrorist attack.

Very scary.

I really find it alarming that the FBI can trace your history of AOL instant messaging.

if that is the case FISHHEAD do not confess your Love for the General anymore to me on AOL IM...thank you Sir

Sometimes I forget the GENERAL was in the MARINE CORPS.

Will do, thanks for the heads up Donald.

Donald-
On a side note, would really like to see your participation in the SKYBOOK bases contest in the bases forum.

Dont let nothing but fear hold you back.

ok Frank ill check it out...thanks



on a side not Wildbill...it does not scare me as they IMO they are looking for terrorists and people running those kind of web sites not people talking about or wagering on the KY derby...

I actually do not mind what they are doing If it is keeping our country safe...

As long as Ass-croft is in there I would be scared. They are openly admitting to using it in other cases, not just terrorists. Add to that their wild assertions about offshore operations being easy pickings for money laundering and I think this threat cannot be overlooked.

Not a bit of worry here. In no way scared. May be dead later today or tomorrow. Got bigger worries than going to court for gambling. I still ask who am I harming? My bills are paid in full and my children are very well.

They can try and scare someone else. I'll deal with it as necessary.

Damn your civil liberties are really in jeopardy,

lets see:

1)can associate with anyone on earth abt any deviance fr Kiddie Porn to modern slavery, virtually unfettered.

2)can purchase goods and services from any vendor on earth whether they adhere to modern rules regarding commerce or not.

Yea your civil liberties are really in a whole lot of jeopardy.

Will take my safety over your bullshit in spades every single solitary day. Oh did you miss the daily interruptions to the booming industry of world wide terror?

The lack of acknowledgement of the dramatic increase in personal freedoms the past 15 yrs is the hall mark of an agenda ridden myopic scumbag,

but we knew that already.

BTW I hope you get your wish, I hope ashcroft is gone,

so then y'all can deal with a guy like spritzer, a guy who actually takes action and isn't full of hot gas, like Ashcroft.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SPVI:
BTW I hope you get your wish, I hope ashcroft is gone,

so then y'all can deal with a guy like spritzer, a guy who actually takes action and isn't full of hot gas, like Ashcroft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it wouldnt bother me at all, as long as any information that might get could only be used against you in connection with terrorist activities.

It's all about Power and authority. I was thinking the other day. Just why would a person want to be President of the United States. The only answer I could come up with is they have a big ego. All and any of them.
Now--think of law enforcement--If that's not a "power trip" I don't know what is.

Who said "Power corrupts, complete power corrupts completely."

SP6 is 100% correct. I could care less if Ashcroft wants to waste his time looking over my shoulder while I'm surfing the web. I don't go to pervert sites or do anything illegal other than playing some low limit poker. And if they come after any of you I could care less anymore; you shouldn't be doing pervert or illegal stuff anyway.

Two things jump out at me right away:

#1 The ACLU is a MUCH bigger threat to the USA, as we know it, than ten John Ashcrofts.

#2 Is this a blanket search of all Internet users or just targeting certain individuals?

.....ScottyS

You guys miss the point here. Of course the government isn't going to get aggressive with sports bettors. What they might do is two things. One is to increase the pressure on players, just like those idiot record companies. They might have a hard time winning a case in court, but they hope to threaten certain people into paying some money, but more importantly for the egos in the DOJ it will scare others into stopping their participation. The second thing, the thing I really worry about, is that they will use this to harass the books themselves. I think I have written enough on this, but the thing that would cause the most damage to this industry is government intervention that prevents them from operating. If a couple of books get cut off thanks to the US government, it will cause trouble for every book. Once word gets out that the US government shut a book down, lots of players will make runs on their books. The only players left will keep much smaller balances and be sharper players on average. It wouldn't be long until that would cause other troubles.

No I don't fear going to jail over this. I fear the DOJ causing havoc to the industry. The did it on the advertising side and with menacing tools like this they can sure hit closer to home than anyone of us should ever hope.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scott:
Two things jump out at me right away:

#1 The ACLU is a MUCH bigger threat to the USA, as we know it, than ten John Ashcrofts.

.....ScottyS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Explain yourself. What exactly is bad about defending the civil liberties of all americans?

WildBill,

Sadly, I think you're wasting your time here. Very few people care anymore about lost liberties. Everyone wants the government to protect them from the "Evildoers" and they are willing to sacrifice just about anything to get this "illusion" of security.

I started a thread a month or so ago about the problems associated with advocating drug testing. In five days I got ONE ... that's right just ONE ... poster that supported my views. And this was in a forum of GAMBLERS - people who should know firsthand about the struggle to retain their freedom in the face of perpetual government interference.

The problem is that the government has been smart about this. They know that the American people would never stand for a massive takeover of their liberties, so instead they slowly chip away at them. Remember 10 years ago when the Republicans all banded together to vote down Hilary's government takeover of health care. It was too quick. Instead the Republicans tookover and SLOWLY have done essentially the same thing - capped by the massive prescription drug benefit last year.

In fact, the government's been doing it for 70 years now, ever since the "Raw ... oops, I mean New Deal". Its like boiling a frog. If you wanna boil a frog, you don't boil the water and throw the frog in - he just hops out. You stick him in cold water and SLOWLY add heat until before he knows it, he's cooked. We're all getting slow cooked right now and precious few people even see it!

YEa the illusion of security.

Terrorist industry is on its ass,

and you are virtually free to do whatever it is you do.

Pandering to people's worst fears abt their goevernment has been around since dirt turned brown. So we must've been simmering for thousands of years by now.

The strong will survive. Less books is not such a bad thing. If the Govt is able to shut down any sportsbooks, let's hope they get to some of the worse ones.

The DOS attacks are more of a worry than the DOJ.