Has anyone noticed the way Hollywood rejects bets due to line changes? They wait until you confirm before they tell you the line has moved. This happens to me way too often considering I place my bets fast and refresh the odds a lot. They want to see you commit yourself before they tell you that you can't get the price you want. It's like going up to the window at a live sportsbook, asking what the line is, giving your money to place a bet and them saying "whoops, it just changed, sorry". OK, maybe once in a blue moon the line might change in those exact 5 seconds but at Hollywood it happens way too often to be believable. Anyone here notice the same thing?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSI:
It happended twice to me today at OLY, only both times -- i got the better number.. Oly is a solid book..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can't possibly happen at Oly when you are at the confirmation screen. Unless you need more than 1 minute to type your initials.
It happended twice to me today at OLY, only both times -- i got the better number.. Oly is a solid book..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can't possibly happen at Oly when you are at the confirmation screen. Unless you need more than 1 minute to type your initials.
SSI - good point. Come to think of it, I don't remember Hollywood ever rejecting a bet because of a line move in my favor. There was a similar issue at Pinnacle last summer and I remember running a thread with Halifax which proved their selective practices. We watched line moves and placed a bets (almost) simultaneously to prove they employ selection against the player. Then a few months later Pinnacle cleaned up their act and the bets placed after line changes started getting rejected in a two-sided manner.
I wonder if a similar experiment is warranted here?
I wonder if a similar experiment is warranted here?
Darryl,
Our software will reject any bet where the line has changed. If the line does not match what is in our system at the time of confimation then the bet will be rejected. It will do so whether the line moves against you or in your favor, unlike other systems that will reject bets only if it is in the books favor. If you don't believe me, test it out (I just did). Try betting a cold side.
Thanks,
Vic
Our software will reject any bet where the line has changed. If the line does not match what is in our system at the time of confimation then the bet will be rejected. It will do so whether the line moves against you or in your favor, unlike other systems that will reject bets only if it is in the books favor. If you don't believe me, test it out (I just did). Try betting a cold side.
Thanks,
Vic
Vic from Hollywood,
Thanks for the response. I believe you that your software is capable of rejecting a line that moves against the player but even then I am not convinced it is happening in all cases.
My current theory about your lines is the following:
Whenever a line changes there is a brief period (usually about a minute) in which nobody knows about it except people who try to make a bet. For everyone else, it will not appear on the lines screen even if they refresh it. During this time your system employs selection against the player. After the minute is up, the new lines will appear on the screen for everyone who refreshes and this is when your software becomes "honest" again.
I would like to believe that this is not the case but it's hard to find any other explanation for the following phenomenon:
The average time between my last refresh to placing a bet is about 30 seconds.
The average time between placing a bet and hitting "confirm" is about 6 seconds.
One would expect, therefore, that line changes happen about 5 times as often in the first interval compared to the second, yet for me the ratio has been about 10:1 the other way around.
I am quite sure this is not just my imagination and my sample size (over 100) is most definitely significant. In any case I would really like to hear from anyone who has similar (or contradictory) observations.
Thanks for the response. I believe you that your software is capable of rejecting a line that moves against the player but even then I am not convinced it is happening in all cases.
My current theory about your lines is the following:
Whenever a line changes there is a brief period (usually about a minute) in which nobody knows about it except people who try to make a bet. For everyone else, it will not appear on the lines screen even if they refresh it. During this time your system employs selection against the player. After the minute is up, the new lines will appear on the screen for everyone who refreshes and this is when your software becomes "honest" again.
I would like to believe that this is not the case but it's hard to find any other explanation for the following phenomenon:
The average time between my last refresh to placing a bet is about 30 seconds.
The average time between placing a bet and hitting "confirm" is about 6 seconds.
One would expect, therefore, that line changes happen about 5 times as often in the first interval compared to the second, yet for me the ratio has been about 10:1 the other way around.
I am quite sure this is not just my imagination and my sample size (over 100) is most definitely significant. In any case I would really like to hear from anyone who has similar (or contradictory) observations.
Oh, and of the last 100 single straight wagers I've had rejected because of line changes, 100 times the line moved against me and 0 times it went in my favor. It could be because I'm sharp but I'm equally sharp at Canbet and WSEX and sometimes their lines have moved in my favor for some reason.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by partyboy:
Slash, you don't know what you're talking about. OLY's prices DO change until you confirm your wager(both ways).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Umm partyboy, seems you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about. Olympic has a 60 sec lock on the confirmation screen. The price won't change for at least 60 seconds. It is an awesome feature. Unfortnetely I think Olmpic is the only one who has it.
Slash, you don't know what you're talking about. OLY's prices DO change until you confirm your wager(both ways).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Umm partyboy, seems you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about. Olympic has a 60 sec lock on the confirmation screen. The price won't change for at least 60 seconds. It is an awesome feature. Unfortnetely I think Olmpic is the only one who has it.
ladeda,i disagree,i have put my initials in,and bet within 5 seconds,and have had bets at olympic rejected
Canbet has a 40 second lock which has never been broken for me at least. I think a 10 second lock should be mandatory at all books but without regulation all we can hope for is for evolutionary forces to work their slow but sure magic. Patience and we'll get there. That's what I keep saying to myself anyway.
RPM,
I think I will but in this case the experiment is harder and more expensive.
With Pinny we could just watch the line moves on the screen. Here (assuming my theory is correct) we would need to actually place a bet JUST TO FIND OUT IF THE LINE HAS CHANGED! And the bet may need to be above a certain amount to boot.
Still, I can do it by having someone beside me on another computer while I make my usual daily bets. Then as soon as I run into a line move we would place simultaneous bets on opposite sides. If we succeed in doing so and there is more than their standard juice taken off then we will have proved it.
I will try to organize it for the weekend. It should be interesing.
I think I will but in this case the experiment is harder and more expensive.
With Pinny we could just watch the line moves on the screen. Here (assuming my theory is correct) we would need to actually place a bet JUST TO FIND OUT IF THE LINE HAS CHANGED! And the bet may need to be above a certain amount to boot.
Still, I can do it by having someone beside me on another computer while I make my usual daily bets. Then as soon as I run into a line move we would place simultaneous bets on opposite sides. If we succeed in doing so and there is more than their standard juice taken off then we will have proved it.
I will try to organize it for the weekend. It should be interesing.
To the low post-count heckling bookies:
I am not what you call a "steam" player. I do not use Don Best nor do I ever plan to sign up. I am a line shopper who takes positions (yes, I actually cap games believe it or not) and I like to place my bets near game time when lines tend to move around a lot.
My "sharpness" is about choosing the best line among 4-6 shops. It's really not that hard. If you don't like intelligent people why don't you just run a private shop for personal friends and acquaintances only? Oh, what's that? You want to make more money than that? Oh, I see. Am I getting in your way? Is the internet getting in your way? Is the free exchange of information getting in your way? Too bad. North Korea still has tight controls on information. You might want to try setting up shop there!?
I am not what you call a "steam" player. I do not use Don Best nor do I ever plan to sign up. I am a line shopper who takes positions (yes, I actually cap games believe it or not) and I like to place my bets near game time when lines tend to move around a lot.
My "sharpness" is about choosing the best line among 4-6 shops. It's really not that hard. If you don't like intelligent people why don't you just run a private shop for personal friends and acquaintances only? Oh, what's that? You want to make more money than that? Oh, I see. Am I getting in your way? Is the internet getting in your way? Is the free exchange of information getting in your way? Too bad. North Korea still has tight controls on information. You might want to try setting up shop there!?
