Survival of new sports books

CharlieMaxwell · Apr 10, 2004

Many people have been asking if a new start-up sports book could be successful. I believe central to this discussion is the idea that a new book should operate under a framework where costs are more closely matched to revenues. In addition, management should focus on a slice of the market to begin with, with potential to expand later.

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Charlie

Dante · Apr 10, 2004

"The book would start off with a below-market bonus, say five percent of deposit. The small bonus serves as a way to start up the player’s bonus account, which would increase with every losing bet. Every time a player loses a bet, the book would credit one percent of the base amount of the bet to the bonus account"

that is on the right track...but I still think any new book will be fighting a HUGE uphill battle ...HUGE

TheGeneral+ · Apr 10, 2004

I would not even offer the 5%. I would base it soley on loyalty bonuses of some type.

Fishhead · Apr 10, 2004

Offer a 10-15% sign-up bonus with a 5x rollover.

THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR A BOOK TO OFFER THIS IF THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF CAPABLE BOOKMAKER AT THE HELM!!

I have said it many times in these forums, A REASONABLE bonus offer of 15% or less and 5x rollover is a terrific marketing ploy by any sportsbook that has any good bookmaking skills.

The negative print that bonuses garnish is vastly overstated, when in fact incompetent bookmaking is much more to blame.

WildBill · Apr 10, 2004

But Fish, if you are a regular customer which would you rather have? Ongoing bonuses or just a one-time shot upfront and maybe a smaller one if you happen to tap out? I think most of us are pretty loyal customers to some books and would love a modest ongoing bonus such as I suggest. The upfront one of any size only encourages the wrong attitude towards a book IMO. I say 5% here just to get some dollars into a bonus account to get it started and so that a player can make a transfer or two, but not so they can count on that to be a big addition to the gambling stake. If you want free cash from the book you have to play and play continuously, that is the whole idea here.

Fishhead · Apr 10, 2004

This is solely my opinion of what I would do if I were to open a book.

I would not mess around with any loyality program.

I would attract my new customers with a sound good fundamental sportsbook model.

Would attract many new customers by offering them a 15% sign-up bonus with a 5x rollover and be confident that I would retain many of them as long standing customers after they discover what a fine and fair sportsbook operation I was operating.

I would not want the possible headaches of dealing with loyality stuff on a continual basis.....and would much rather focus my employees manpower on running a top flight sportsbook.

My viewpoint from the players side of the counter is I am much more interested in a well operated sportsbook (Pinnacle) than I am with any type of loyality program.

JohnnyDeMarco · Apr 10, 2004

Fishead
any new book these days would have to have millions to put up for an advertising budget.

My opinion for a new book to make it-they would have to hold their own numbers and not move on air. That would bring some traffic.

Also, I think a new book that would openly say who the principles are-where they bank-if they would have a massive bond-and maybe operate from a place like England. All that would help.

Fishhead · Apr 10, 2004

I disagree J.D.

TheGeneral+ · Apr 10, 2004

Fishhead, as long as you call me to handle CS, you will do well.

I'm awaiting a call.

Thanks

Fezzik · Apr 10, 2004

Johnny Demarco wants to "hold his own numbers and not move on air".

I wish he would open 'Bet At Johnnys' so we could all go in and clean his clock.

I've heard this nonsense before about why books shouldn't 'move on air' and they should 'trust their numbers'. There are many reasons this is nonsense, but the most obvious one is that 95% of the books don't put up 'their' numbers, they just copy. Given you are copying a number (a good idea for most books rather than coming up with their own) one OBVIOUSLY should continue to copy everyone else going forward.

Or sit there like an idiot with WHite Sox +160 when every other sports book has fixed their suspect line.

Fishhead · Apr 10, 2004

There in lies the problem FEZZIK......most people have no concept of how to be a proper bookmaker as I am sure you will agree.

Again, it is ridiculous for people to believe that a 15% bonus is SUCH A TERRIBLE THING FOR A SPORTSBOOK.

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

IT COMES DOWN TO PROPER MANAGEMENT AT ALL LEVELS, CUSTOMER SERVIC, AND PROPER BOOKMAKING.

IT IS AMAZING HOW SO MANY BOOKS ARE MISSING IN ALL THREE AREAS.

TheGeneral+ · Apr 10, 2004

I agree there Fish as good Management is KEY no matter what business model.

So many times we see Management blame, blame, and blame. When they need to be looking in the morror.

Fishhead · Apr 10, 2004

SOME OF THE BEST OF THE BEST OFFSHORE BOOKS OFFER 15%+ BONUSES AND ARE DOING FANTASTIC!!!

WE ALL NEED TO STOP CRYING FOUL ON THIS BONUS FRONT!!!

MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING IN THE LONG RANGE SCHEME OF THINGS....

Unless of course we are talking about totally absurd bonuses.

WildBill · Apr 10, 2004

Fish I don't think too many people are crying foul or saying bonuses are really what are doing these guys in. I hear people act like it is a sign of trouble, but I sure don't agree with that. And yes I totally agree customer service is important but damn so many scammers and angle shooters out there that in being fair sometimes you have to piss off someone. But still don't you agree that books would keep more customers around if they made a conscious effort to draw in long-term customers from day one? They certainly could treat you right, but minimizing the bonus upfront but paying more on the back-end is just a solid idea IMO to attract and keep valued customers around. Not to many books seem to do that from day one and a muddled strategy and execution can be fatal as Panam showed. I think a book needs to decide before it even starts getting close to opening everything they will target in terms of customers, service levels, bonuses...and let the strategy play out for some time with investors well aware of what exactly they have in mind.

TheGeneral+ · Apr 11, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And yes I totally agree customer service is important but damn so many scammers and angle shooters out there that in being fair sometimes you have to piss off someone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Add in "just plain jerks"

Survival of new sports books

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CharlieMaxwell

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