5 Time Rollover Statistic? What % of players walk away with profit?

Search

Banned
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
80,046
Tokens
I am sure bookmakers would know this stat probably without having to check or research this...

A player sends a dime to a book gets a 20% bonus with a 5 time rollover requirement...What % of players still have money after the rollover?

Does anyone know the % on this?

Good Luck to everyone who has to roll the money 5 times!
 

Home of the Cincinnati Criminals.
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
19,500
Tokens
i can count on one hand how many times i walked away with money on a 5x's rollover.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,532
Tokens
1 dime gets 200 bonus /5 roll = 40 bucks per each rollover. Win 50% of the time then thats 250 in juice your gonna spend.
Most people should have their money left. In alot of cases roll overs are set to the % of the bonus so on avg players are left with the original amount they deposited to bet at 10% juice. IN this example it is setup so the book gets their bonus back plus 5% of player funds overall.
 

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
9,769
Tokens
journey,

Lets say you send 1k to a book and obtain a 20% cash bonus. You now have 1200 in your acct. You need to now give the book 6000 in action.. (5x rollover)

Now at 6000 in action, at 4.55% hold for the book, your avg joe gambler should lose 273 dollars after the 6000 has been played. So you got 200 in bonuses, and you gave back 273, which puts the book ahead 73 bucks on you after you've rolled it over 5x..

Now if the player stays with the book for a long time, the book now gains the advantage. But as you see, a 5x rollover and 20% still gives the advantage to the book over the avg player.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,532
Tokens
oh yeah, I was looking at it rolling over the 10o0 alone thinking of a certain 5x rollover going on now without a bonus.
my mistake
 

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 1999
Messages
75,444
Tokens
......and rememeber this about SG math.....that was betting just straight bets. Throw in absurd multi-game teasers, future bets, absurd multi-game parlays, etc., etc, and the book advantage is much more. A book with any kind of bookmaker with half a brain can easily, and should, overcome a 20% bonus with a 5x rollover and show a profit.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
172
Tokens
sick and fish, you both would be correct if that was the only expense. Did you forget about fees? Almost every company that gives away bonuses also picks up the transfer fees, which average about 10%. So actually a 20% bonus is a 30% bonus and NO ONE can overcome that. Do you guys think its a coincidence that the solid shops like Pinnacle/Olympic/WSEX don't offer much of a bonus? You cannot overcome 20% and transfee fees and any book that offers both is nothing but a pyramid.
 

ODU GURU
Joined
Feb 26, 1999
Messages
20,881
Tokens
castaway is so right...

The bonuses and excessive perks have been the undoing of almost evey sports book which has gone belly up...

This has got to change to ensure the safety of the players' money!
 

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 1999
Messages
75,444
Tokens
Castaway- Yes, that is understandable. Especially with the shops that offer 20% on a continual basis with no limit on the bonus and a 5x rollover or LESS. But remember, some customers actually do stay on with the book much further than the 5x rollover, so that has to be taken into consideration too. If a book offers a 20% sign-up bounus, they really cannot afford to give away much more with such things as -107 vig, rebates, contests, etc., etc.

But I think by adhering to just a 20% bounus or less on ititial sign-ups and with a minimum 5x rollover, the right book can use this as an advantage to draw a customer base that will be profitable. Hopefully, a well ran sportsbook will be able to analyze their own situation and make the most profitable decision.
 

Banned
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
80,046
Tokens
Okay maybe I worded my question wrong...

Let me try again here, you have 50 players who all have 1 dime in JoeSchmo Sportsbook, how many of the 50 still have an acct. balance after rolling the money 5 times?

I would think the sportsbooks have this stat handy and its probably a very reliable statistic...
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
2,690
Tokens
Back when I started in this business, I knew nothing about scalping or middling, I only realized that I could rather easily make a small profit by making small, straight, flat wagers only and hitting just over 50%. I was able to do that helped by the weight the books were carrying with their bonuses. I only posted up in books with a 3X or 2x rollover. I really knew nothing about gambling but knew quite a bit about sports.

So 54% lets say, was not terribly difficult to attain. In fact, it was rather easy to do with a knowledge of sports, a lot of honest homework, making straight wagers only, keeping them small and betting a flat amount. Common sense told me that if they increased my stake, and I kept exactly to my betting plan, did not chase, etc., I would beat them most of the time at rollover end.

In those days the game I played was not about money, it was about having fun and just "beating the book" even if only for small change. That was my competition; just beating the book. I didn't consider that "bonus whoring" just taking what they gave me and playing them "straight". [no pun intended].

Things have changed now. Wager size has increased and I stay loyal to good books. But otherwise my flat, straight wagers stay the same except for as I said wager size. But I still almost never exceed 2% of bankroll. When I finally got in trouble was when I started to chase and play a few parlays and teasers. Got off my game plan and my whole accounting system. I realized what I was doing, took time off, and have not done it since.

This is a very conservative game plan and not for everybody, I'll quickly concede that.

Three yards and a cloud of dust and a tough D by never chasing, betting staight and flat only. I knew from long ago in the world of sports that, while not glamorous and it doesn't necessarily win big, it wins most of the time.

If I can take the analogy further, the books are waiting for a turnover, a trick exotic play, or a change in game plan should you get a little behind. They expect a mistake on your part. Maybe these days they aren't getting it as much anymore as folks wise up. They can be beat by playing conservative smashmouth not to mention scalping and middling which I don't seek to do. Now it's time for them to wise up.

I would now be happy with no bonus in exchange for security and a bit of reduced juice. Wise up BM's, what would be the incentive to pull out especially if you throw in some easily attainable loyalty stuff like an XXL polo shirt and a girlie calendar. Or for that matter use your marketing expertise and come up with something new that doesn't cost you much but the guys would want. I am amazed that I never see any new non-monetary incentives.

Yea keep throwing out the 20% and and get beat by both scalpers, middlers and even guys who play you straight with a good game plan. If you think you're going to get loyalty you're smokin' yak hair.

If you are new and not massively funded, maybe it's a bit late to get into the game unless you are scum. If you are scum, you are now dealing with an ever increasingly knowledgable and sophisticated public and you should stay or get into the drug trade where you belong.

For newbies remember that, while the bonuses last, the books are carrying too much weight and if you stick to my plan or a similar one, you'll be "in with a feather." Look for no more than a 3x rollover, forget 5x or more. You can pull this off with just 10% if you seek no instant riches. But BEWARE beyond the 10% except for seasonal one time type of promotions from respected top tier books.

If I am leading newbies into prostitution, so be it. They keep it legal and it pays. But you don't have to scalp or middle. Play them straight and beat them. Pull out and do it again until they stop the stupid bonuses.

If a book like bet BetPanam gives you 20% for a few days, weigh risk and reward and come up with your own conclusion. That's one you may want to stay at though if you got in this week. The reduced juice should keep you there.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,156
Tokens
walking away with profit and walking away with what they put in the original book and what they grinded it onto is two different figures. i'd be wanting my dough out screw the profit.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,597
Tokens
Very few players are able to make a profit, SG example is someone who has a clue about money management and very few gamblers have any clue about how to control a bankroll!

I am only guessing but I would hazzard a guess of around 10-20% actually make some money on a 20% bonus! With many more losing the original and then some more to boot.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,103
Tokens
Given the situation with Gamblers Avenue/royal
Most players that will try to rollover their account balance 5x will lose all of their money and the ones that don't will only be able to hold on to about 20% if they know what they are doing AND if they are LUCKY.

Rule of thumb in this industry...most gamblers on average will lose 90% of their post-up funds over time.

Anything else they tell you is B.S. and/or a case-by-case basis.
 

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
9,769
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Intuition BET:
Given the situation with Gamblers Avenue/royal
Most players that will try to rollover their account balance 5x will lose all of their money and the ones that don't will only be able to hold on to about 20% if they know what they are doing AND if they are LUCKY.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Insty, how can you say that young man? If a player has 1,000 with GA, and rolls it over 5x, and did the worst thing possible too, and that is just bet both sides and lose the juice each time, he'd still have 773 out of his 1000 left, after his rollover.

A player with 1k at GA and having to rollover 5,000 in bets (5x)

Bet #1- Risking 2500 to win 2273

and

Bet #2- Risking 2500 to win 2273.

____

So there you have it, at worst case scenario, laying 10 cents and betting both sides for the whole 5k in rollover, he'd still walk away only losing 227 out of his 1000.

That don't even include shopping for good numbers, lower vig, and a chance for middling, like having -2.5 at GA, and +3 at another book.. How can you say they will lose it all after 5x rollover?
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,103
Tokens
hey sick he is talking about a joe average public.

i agree and it might be more than 95%. for ex you know 10 buddies betting foots MAYBE 1 will last the whole year( then lose it in baskets)

all sportsbooks and local bookies want is action. the more he plays the vig will soon get him. w/ chasing, teasers and vig, poor money management he has no shot. if joe deposited 1000 w/ 200 bonus the book expects to have it all.
THE ONLY REASON books go down after a year is because he is gambling or is not well funded to ride the waves which he knows he will be on top at the end.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,103
Tokens
Sick - You are over qualified and too defense to answer this question.

YES I am talking about the average Joe and the Rec gambler will lose even more.

The example you gave above may be true for players of your caliber but you're not the average gambler I feel it is very irresponsible of you to post that.....let's be HONEST for the sake of the average guy and the newbies.
icon_rolleyes.gif
 

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
9,769
Tokens
No insty, I didn't mean it that way sir, sorry. Maybe I understood you wrong.. Your quote said that most players would lose after the 5x rollover. But I just meant after the 5x rollover is complete ONLY.. And that even the joe squares would only lose 22% of their balance at the worst case scenario with the Royal deal..And that most customers will indeed lose on the usual 20% cash, 5x rollover, but not all after the 5x, but yes, most will eventually lose it after continuing to play there.

But I probably misunderstood what you said. I think you might have meant that they will EVENTUALLY lose their whole balance because they will keep playing and playing, and lose it eventually,, which is btw,.... 1000% accurate.

Take care
 

RX Senior
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
47,431
Tokens
5 X rollover youll always have those few guys that end up cashing huge trying to make the requirement sometimes placing wagers they wouldnt have normally. it works that way also.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,902
Tokens
call me stupid or whatever, but i'm just happy to have that money in an account to play with.

rather than having nothing or having to deposit more to get it.

Royal has better lines and options as moneylines in hockey and + or -. Plus they have all the 2nd half lines for college football and basketball

it's better than nothing. i'm going to play it anyway...
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,108,633
Messages
13,453,096
Members
99,426
Latest member
bodyhealthtechofficia
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com