IMHO: Ignore any recommendations here or elsewhere for sportsbooks

Jazz · Nov 5, 2003

I'm not trying to be a thorn, but I have to speak my mind - the following does so, in response to the Shrink's reply in 'Sour Grapes'. Bottom line: Don't place any confidence whatsoever in any recommendations you read here or anywhere in a book unless you know for a fact the book is solid, or it's one of the industry's best, like Pinnacle or Olympic. And this is more than an opinion for me, it's how I'll proceed from now on - this GA situation is the perfect example, and of course it will happen again.

THE SHRINK

IT'S ALL GOOD!
posted November 05, 2003 09:39 AM
Bill and Jazz,

Excellent posts!

However, since this is an UNREGULATED industry, there forums are the BEST thing that gamblers have available to them...

Unfortunately, there weren't many naysayers with regards to GA until the very end, but I believe there was still some time to react when the forst poster warned us...

I was lied to as well by the people from GA posting that everything was just fine, which we now know wasn't true!

THE SHRINK
Posts: 12782 | From: Chesapeake, Va | Registered: February 26, 1999

Jazz

Heaven for climate, hell for society
posted November 05, 2003 09:45 AM

Thanks, Shrink. However, you've just made it clear that any assurances anyone reads at the Rx about any book whatsoever (advertiser or not) are completely useless. All it takes is for someone to (gasp!) lie to you or the Rx monitors about their situation, and shit hits the fan. The point being, anything you read at the Rx or any other forum about any except the top-flight books is not necessarily lies, but could be based on lies from the books.

Okay, now that I've got that straight, I'll still enjoy the various articles here and obviously a lot of the topics, but I'll completely ignore any recommendations I see posted for any book I'm not already in and know for a personal fact are solid.

To do otherwise would mean I'm a complete moron, and momma didn't raise me that way.

SrMuny · Nov 5, 2003

People remember, The RX or any other forum are just TOOLS in making a desicion about a BOOK. Do your homework before SENDING any $ OFFSHORE.

D2bets · Nov 5, 2003

Agreed Jazz. All one can do is read everything one sees with an open, yet skeptical mind and use his best judgment and understand/accept the various degrees of risk his money is at at all times. We deal in risk. Risk is the nature of this beast. The chance that a book will go belly-up is a risk that should be well understood and accounted for. Just like you shouldn't wager more than you can afford to lose, don't leave offshore more than you can afford to lose. That's probably common sense, but it might not be too common.

Jazz · Nov 5, 2003

Agreed. Also, if the Shrink with all of his industry experience can get so easily fooled, what does that say about everyone else's chances?

Putting your trust in what anyone says about a book is just plain ignorant.

max1234 · Nov 5, 2003

Jazz,

Excellent post and excellent advice. The bottom line of this whole "watchdog site" business is that the books pay for these sites. Ken didn't sell this site based on posters checking in. He sold it based on advertising revenue generated by selling ads to the books. The books buy advertising based on the number of hits a site generates. That's why certain posters are and were tolerated despite their quirks and bullshit they post. The bottom line is that one's loyalty generally lies with who's paying the bills. Maybe Ken was lied to, I don't know whether he was or wasn't. But I do feel that anyone that trusts what they read here and makes financial decisions based on what they read is a fool. Stick with the big shops.... and even then that doesn't assure you anything. Ace's is a prime example of that. These forums are filled with posters and ghosts whose prime objectives are either to recruit new players or to keep the ones that they have. The bottom line to bookmaking is to make money. And don't ever forget that. From dealing dual lines to bait and switch tactics shops will do whatever they can to make money. Anyone that's surprised when they're lied to shouldn't be....

Buzzsaw · Nov 5, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Don't place any confidence whatsoever in any recommendations you read here or anywhere <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I pretty much agree with you Jazz but i do know a site that has watched a dozen forum books fall the past 2 years without even 1 of its recommended books even close to trouble.

It's no different than investing in bonds. You take on a risk playing outside of the "A" group.

BETWWTS
VIP
Pinnacle
CANBET
CRIS
Bet365
Hollywood
BetJamaica/Olympic
GameDay
Grande
Bowmans
World Spt Ex
AllWorld
Heritage
BetOnGames
TradeSports
FiveDimes
BetAustralia
Intertops
Cascade

Sodium Pentethol V · Nov 5, 2003

Yea Jazz he was fooled.

ROTFLMAO.

Where the F is IB, now that Royal comes to the rescue for the upteenth time?

It's all a scheme.

WEEKENDALKI · Nov 5, 2003

Jazz, it comes down to gut instinct and collaborating with the right people. If my instincts tell me that I shouldn't work with a certain book due to some odd quirks that don't make sense, or a slow pay without a good explanation, etc. etc. run away. One should certainly do a hell of a lot more due diligence than just trusting the RX or some haters in the forums. I agree with d2 in the sense that one shouldn't carry HUGE balances with any book, and do business with those that have been good to you. I have been with Rio/Skybook for 6 years, and they have paid my diligently every time. I won a huge contest, and my money was in my account in hours. Pinnacle, we all know is HUGE. I play there with confidence along with several others. BetPanam is new, but i feel confident there because they are so professional, and I know that the principals are honorable. Even a book like Cascade and Jazz who had HUGE finanacial problems I continued to play with because I knew the owners were good people who WANTED to do the right thing. In that situation, i was right, they did get back on their feet, and paid me every dollar owed. It comes down to the quality of the book in terms of integrity. If the book wants to do the right thing, that is more important than how many dollars they have behind them, as illustrated by ACES GOLD. We all know that scumbag charlie took off with all of theplayers' money. He wasn't broke. So my advice is to work with books that are proven good guys and professional. if you stick to that formula it is unlikely you will get burned.

D2bets · Nov 5, 2003

Buzz, so then I take it you're "guaranteeing" that list of books with your own funds?

Looks like a good list to me but even you would admit there is still risk with those books, albeit (hopefully) less risk. Right?

Jazz · Nov 5, 2003

Thanks, guys - well, whether Shrink was lied to or not, it's irrelevant in the absolute sense of the advice: in either event, the result would be identical: positive and usually uncritical posts were posted here about GA by the Rx and it resulted in some players signing up with a book that could have gone completely stiff. As a matter of fact, logically either Shrink was lied to, in which case anything Mike or anyone at GA says has to be treated as a lie (meaning, you might have lost all your money had Royal not taken over the accounts), or Shrink is lying, in which case the advice posted here is still just as valid. Since it's impossible for me to know for absolute certainty what the truth is here, I logically cannot be harmed at this forum financially or any other site on the Net if I always assume information posted about books is fun reading but fictional, and nothing that would ever make me post up there.

Nope, I'll just go along as usual, reading the gambling articles, enjoying bashing the shit out of scams like Hedgesyn, doing my scalping and middling and enjoying my free time in retirement just fvcking around.

PanchoSanza · Nov 5, 2003

Can't wait to retire so I can just "fvck around".

Mr.Jones · Nov 5, 2003

SBR doesn't gurantee anything gentlemen and who the hell can in this business? I will say this for him however. By staying with his recommended list the last few years, I have not had a single problem whatsoever.

By straying from it twice. I had several minor problems with one out and now this with GA.

I will also publicly thank him now, since I didn't have the class to do so earlier, for quickly answering an e-mail I sent him. Also, yesterday, in the heat of battle, I incorrectly implied GA was a B rated book when it was a C. Sorry.

But that says something about any books currently rated less than B- doesn't it?

D2bets · Nov 5, 2003

BTW Buzz, I wasn't trying to razz you. I'm personally a fan of SBR and while I disagree in small ways with some of your ratings, overall you do a fine job and IMO your Top 20 list is as solid as anyone could come up with.

Jazz · Nov 5, 2003

I would have to agree with D2 - but still I take ALL recommendations from ANY source with a healthy dose of salt - there is always bias, the questions are whether the bias interferes with objectively reporting on a book, what the bias originates from (advertising from a book, etc), and whether the bias is acknowledged or not. Once I understand that, I can glean more useful information. No one I've ever read is completely bias-free, either.

D2bets · Nov 5, 2003

Yeah Jazz, you're obviously biased against people who are biased...then again, maybe that's my bias talking.

maxdemo · Nov 5, 2003

Shrink;
You state not to trust anybody pushing a book but you also prop a couple yourself:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Bottom line: Don't place any confidence whatsoever in any recommendations you read here or anywhere in a book unless you know for a fact the book is solid, or it's one of the industry's best, like Pinnacle or Olympic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BuzzRavanaugh · Nov 5, 2003

I think these are some great posts and topic.

IMO the burden rests on the player. You can't blame the forums for the failures when you get lured to a new book. Most of us play at these books because of greed, different lines or juicy bonus. We are the ones to blame.

I feel sorry for the newbies who may not be familiar with what can happen offshore. However I think in the GA case those are few and far between because their customers are mostly from the forums.

My last comment the forums are useful to let people know about problems and hopeful offer solutions or rescue plans. However never forget these forums are supported by new books. Advertising at the Rx or MW is a great way to gain customers but you end up getting sharper customers than average. Unfortunately a book needs to have sharps and squares in order to be profitable.

Dante · Nov 5, 2003

Buzz I learned one thing here, I will NEVER play at a book again that offers more then 20% bonus EVER whether its advertised here or not. I hope the RX does not take books that offer over this amount of bonus again...but all I can do is HOPE on that

entropy · Nov 5, 2003

Dante better speak to SHRINK about Bodog.

Dante · Nov 5, 2003

entropy..I have Nothing to do with who comes on the site..I just MOD...thats why all I can do is hope. I posted a thread about this to him already with my concern.