Lots of "NFL fix" talk.....Is this inside coincidence?>>>

HacheMan · Oct 7, 2003

over 20 years ago, Before gambling on football was so popular with point~spreads, moneylines, etc., there was an article in Playboy, where some big~wig/inside guy claimed the NFL was fixed, and that's exactly what the title of the article was, "The NFL Is Fixed". Now keep in mind, this was over 20years ago, and every time I see some of the things I do today, and combine it with that accusation so long ago, when all of this wasn't nearly as popular, it actually makes me think that the possibility does very well exist, that the NFL could have the final say in determining the outcomes of each and every game.(I'm not saying I totally believe this, but it is interesting to think a claim was made decades ago.)

RPM · Oct 7, 2003

imo anytime money is involved, anything is possible.

HacheMan · Oct 7, 2003

I agree RPM. I just can't understand why someone would make such an accusation so long ago for no reason at all, before gambling was so popular and all of this "fix" talk was born.

TheGeneral+ · Oct 7, 2003

There is lots of "NFL is fixed" each year as bad beats happen.

Sure some games are fixed. I would guess normally it is just an ATS thing.

BillDozer · Oct 7, 2003

i believe all pro games have and will be tilted in rare cases. I believe it and accept it. Doent work against you unless you put all your eggs in the same box

lxajay · Oct 7, 2003

I can't buy into this whole "fixed" thing. The players still have to make the plays, and in front of a very televised audience. Lets assume the fix was in on this last MNF game; is it possible that so many parties were involved to have Indy come from so far behind, cover the spread, tie it up, and win. I just can't see it. Not only would the refs have to be involed, but the coaches and players too, not to mention some higher power setting this all up. It's just to large of a jump for me to believe.

I can believe that a player may miss a block, or a ref blow a call for thier own purposes, but no way can last nights come back have been a fix. Both teams and all the refs would have had to be in on it. IMO.

HacheMan · Oct 7, 2003

I agree with your philosophies ixajay, and anyone else that says it ludicrous to think such is possible. But, it is very interesting that claims of the NFL being fixed came decades ago, such as in that article's case, before people such as us even thought about making claims of fixed games because of point spreads and money. Also, you say so many parties being involved in a fix is not possible, I have to disagree. I mentioned in another thread that with technology today, it would be very easy for Vegas, to have some sort of system or software right before game time and after they have started, and then determine how many millions came in on a particular team, and which team winning would benefit the house,etc. more, and then relay the results to whoever, possibly people affiliated with the NFL, and then they go from there. Also you mention the players would have to be involved also, well, maybe thats how they afford to pay players all of these millions, and why, not because they are such great athletes, but such terrific actors and are able to keep their mouths shut..........All of this very far~fetched I know, and definitely dont believe this is the case, but my point here is, it would not be as hard to pull of as many people think it is impossible.

wilheim · Oct 7, 2003

Actually 20 years ago there was a ton of money bet on the NFL and every other major sport for that matter. I lived and worked on the strip in Las Vegas for 15 years starting in the mid 70's. The action was incredible. Fix claims are nothing new. The biggest of all time happened over 80 years ago in the 1919 World Series. When you talk about fixing an NFL game you have to remember the cost, and how much is needed to be bet to offset that cost. Money movement is strictly monitered, if an exorbitant amount of money started to be bet on one team it rings a lot of bells in a lot of sportsbooks. That happened with the Chiefs in the early 70's when a few of their games were taken off the boards. Some kind of fix was rumored with Len Dawson and others. Think about how you would bet enough to make it worth your while to fix any single NFL game this weekend, how much is needed to be bet to make it profitable?

wil.

HacheMan · Oct 7, 2003

Yeah, I undestand Wil, and I knew someone would mention this about gambling always being big and talks of fixes. But Wil, nothing like today though. I know your knowledge regarding the history of gambling goes much deeper than mine, I can definitely tell, but betting on sports was absolutely, positively, not as popular %~wise way back then as compared to today. I wish I could find that article, because Im not even sure it mentioned anything about money at the time.

wilheim · Oct 7, 2003

I've read a lot of Playboy articles over the years and do recall the one you mention. Just let me say that a stone cold fix in the NFL is very unlikely, for a lot of reasons. College bsketball is much more suceptable to gamblers getting to players for obvious reasons. Maybe I can find that article, a little later after the baseball game starts.

wil.

lxajay · Oct 7, 2003

Hache,

Ok it may be theortically possible, and I believe you and I are on the same page. But, all books in vegas and offshore combined couldn't swing that much juice week in and week out. It's just not worth the players and owners time, they are already making tons on ticket prices, consesions, appereal, edorsements, etc. Why would the risk that. Eventually someone would have cracked by now. Wouldn't Pete Rose have said something about the hypocracy of his bannishment if this were the case.

I personally would bet ant races if I ever saw one. And you know the loser would go straight to the "it's a fix" cry.

And please keep in mind that I'm more refering to team sports. Obviously man on man events can be tainted with or without the help of outside sources. Easier to corrupt one, not many.

HacheMan · Oct 7, 2003

Wil, all I remember is I was about 11~13 years old I belive, and I'm around mid~30's now, so hopefully that narrows it down somewhat if you have issues that far back. Exactly lxajay , that's the key, if it truly was fixed, some players, etc. would of cracked by now like you say.

downthestretch · Oct 7, 2003

people actualy read playboy articles....

DarrylParsons · Oct 7, 2003

This is an interesting topic which I have thought long and hard about and my theory is that fixes do happen but they are not of the full-blown choreographed type that some conspiracy theorists claim.

I believe that about 10-30% of NFL games are corrupt, and that the corruption is with the refs and not the players, coaches, NFL brass, etc. Why? Because the refs are the ones whose influence on things far outweighs their official salaries. This relates to an all-encompassing theorem about life that I have to which I have yet to find a convincing counterexample, and that is that:

ANYTIME A PERSON (OR ORGANIZATION) HAS A LEVEL OF POWER OR INFLUENCE FAR GREATER THAN THE MATERIAL COMPENSATION HE (THEY) RECEIVES, THERE WILL BE A CORRUPTION FORCE WHICH GIVES MONEY AND TAKES AWAY POWER FROM THIS PERSON (OR ORGANIZATION)

But no matter how much the refs lean to one side, their influence on the outcome is only about 6 or 7 points or so on average, so they only make the strange calls when it looks like it will make a difference. The rest is up to the teams.

And the reason I think only 10-30% of the games are corrupt is because it only makes sense when there is sufficiently unbalanced action.

Interestingly this 6-7 point average corruption is about exactly offset by the fact that the public has figured out that the line is off by about as many points, and so the corruption only serves to even things out and make things harder for the cappers. Any more or any less corruption would make things easier but it looks like these buggers stumbled on the optimal level.

HacheMan · Oct 7, 2003

lol, downthestretch, good one.....And I was only about 12 years old at the time also, when I read that! You have a point, what the he!! was I doing reading?!

CharlieMaxwell · Oct 7, 2003

Wilhelm, I also worked in Las Vegas starting in 1981 (right through the present). Where on the Strip did you work if you don't mind me asking?

wilheim · Oct 7, 2003

NFL refs are hired from the private business sector, and are vetted to the enth degree. Most are very well to do in their business lives. Again we go back to money trails, if a ref fixed a game he would sooner or later be exposed by the money. Sorry but your theory is doubtful. I will add you are of course, entitled to your opinion, as am I. Who is right here is anyone's guess.

wil.

wilheim · Oct 7, 2003

Two different books, both are no longer in operation, they both were mid-strip. Sorry would rather not say more, on these boards. I always lived in the south-west side of town around Spring Mountain and Decatur.

wil.

lxajay · Oct 7, 2003

Also keep in mind that there is instant replay. A ref could blow a call and it may still be reversed, thus keeping the refs involvement minimal in regares to fixing. If some ref came up with some BS ruling, chances are he wouldn't be around for many more games after that.

VaultedTreehouse · Oct 7, 2003

What a moronic thread. So you bet the Bucs and now you're bithcing....I know a ref by the way and he had to go through everything but an anal cavity search to become one. Every play he calls gets scrutinized by the NFL. Every single one.