EWINNER bottom line for me....

First off I said everything I knew yesterday. I will admit it was what I was told from Shrink, make no mistake on that. However what I do know is these guys are not honoring wagers they took. That's plenty for me and all I need to hear. Please do not let anything else ever confuse that issue if you are a player who is new to off-shore. If you are experienced and want to risk playing here that is your business but be aware what is going on.

I have dealt with many books and the reputable one's do not want what is not theirs. They won't even take it! For this place to be trying to "justify" taking these mens money is ridiculous. Recently a book took 30k or so on a software screw up but they did not even want to touch the money. "The guy could have lost the bet, why would we keep it? If we can't find the guy through these aliases we will send it to the sites for some contests". Reputable books are very adamant about it, if it ain't ours we don't touch it. We didn't earn it. You take a bet you pay a bet if they beat you. Unless there are extreme circumstances that is very easy to follow. Guys bearding in or trying to gake advantage of a bonus YOU offerred them is WRONG, however that does not give you a license to steal. Bettors have been bearding in at shops for years, pay them and show them the door - you don't not honor the winning bets. When a book looks to steal they either don't know the business, don't give a shit, or have a light bankroll. Sometimes all three.

The last thing is, not one book will come and speak up for this behaviour because they know it is wrong. I spoke with a couple yesterday and they don't want to get involved but they all said the same thing, if EWinner does not pay they are a stiff book. End of story. Shrink has said it. Krackman has said it. Samurai has said it. Every book I have spoken with has said it. Anyone who gambles that has a clue knows it even if they haven't said it aloud.

I say that to say this, please do not listen to a rabblerouser or two looking to make a name for themselves. Don't get caught up in these big productions by a few posters trying to impress others by bashing the Shrink and the RX. Especially when your money is at stake. If the Rx still had EWinner up there these same few guys would be demanding they be taken down. Look behind all the smoke and mirrrors and think for yourself. All these posts about timelines, exact details, what moment exactly did the money got stolen, etc.... is all worthless, don't be taken in by it. It's designed to take your mind off the real issue and blame the RX. This is a stiff book if they don't pay and no amount of posts in the world will change that.

This book has broken the most standard rule there is for a book, pay when you get beat. There's a lot of shit get kicked around and issues muddied but this one is simple boys, EWinner is a stiff book if they do not pay. Coming in here like a big shot and calling out people who have been in this industry longer than they've known how to write is nothing to brag about. All the while refusing to pick up the phone and explain your side of it. Is it because even they know there is no way to steal what is not yours. Hard to justify that I would guess. Shame on you too Frank. If you want your money ask for it. To try and rubberstamp this book stealing money is wrong. Completely wrong. If they don't pay and anyone here plays there you deserve what you get. And trust me I know the lines are weak, still not worth it. Shops like these make it hard for the reputable ones. Sorry for the rant but this is pathetic. Shrink does the right thing and is then called out here while FatFrank tries to impress the forum.....

>Shame on you too Frank. If you want your money ask for it.

What are you talking about?

Patrick - Please answer this question:

Do you believe it is perfectly ok for people to set up multiple accounts to circumvent a sportsbook's limits and get extra bonus money on top of it?

>Shrink has said it. Krackman has said it.

Weren't these two touting NAB a week before they closed? YES THEY WERE!

Pat, your friends lost money at NAB, Remember?

Pat, become a man once again...

Because if the answer is yes then im sure you wont have a problem if i do this with some of your advertisers here. You have some books here that I would love to bet over their limits. If this is ok with you I can have some buddies register with them and I will give them some money to fund the accounts. I will then make all the plays from my computer and get down as much as I need. Hell I wont even ask for sign up bonuses.

Scoob - it is wrong for the players to do it? Yes. No question. However it is part of the business for people to do it. When you open you are to expect that. Doesn't make it right but it will happen. It certainly doesn't make it okay to steal what isn't yours though. Thirty years ago when my dad was alive people bearded into us. We caught them we threw them out. At no time does anyone ever consider keeping all the losing bets but not paying on the winning bets. Come on Scoob, that isn't right. These guys posted up real money, sent it to a 3rd world country, and then bet games with a 50/50 shot of winning. They DESERVED to be paid when they win if they shot a taxi driver on the way to make the bet. You take a bet and you pay a bet unless it's something extreme like hacking in fake winners or something. Cheating on a bonus the book offers or exceeding limits is not severe enough to steal money that is not yours!!? Hell it scares me a book would even want to do that. There is not other side to the coin.

Back out their bonus, keep the fees incurred and send them on their way. Same thing a reputable book would do. If they don't this book is finished in this busness, call a real book and ask them. They won't want to be quoted but they will tell you this is out of bounds.

>Thirty years ago when my dad was alive people bearded into us.

And your Pop would be ashamed of you... You have no honor! Nor does either RPM and/or Ken.

That's is OK... What goes around comes around.

Why dont these scammers have to bear any responsibility here? If they are never punished for this type of activity they will never stop.

I have to agree with Scoob here. Paying these people just encourages this type of behaviour. They were not only taking a risk on the bets but on the scam also. They got caught so they lost. End of story.

The "pro-scammer" approach to the multiple-account scams that McIrish and The General have advocated provides zero incentive to the multiple account scammers to cease and desist.

If they do it without getting caught (which I'm sure 90% of them do), great ... they've got many extra $$$$ in bonuses (which they don't rightfully deserve), and higher effective betting limits.

If by chance they get caught and lose only the bonus, they really lose nothing, since the bonus was not supposed to be their's anyway. They have no downside, and no reason to stop. Heads I Win, Tails I Break Even.

By the way, McIrish, your stance on this matter, conmbined with the Sick Gambler "trial", is a large part of the reason why you've alienated so many long-time Rx posters ... but you continue to brush it off as "Rx-Haters" holding some sort of grudge.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatFrank:
>Thirty years ago when my dad was alive people bearded into us.

And your Pop would be ashamed of you... You have no honor! Nor does either RPM and/or Ken.

That's is OK... What goes around comes around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frank - You suck everyone's ass at the party and then can't get back here quick enough to bash them. Sugar wouldn't have melted in your mouth at the party you were so sweet. I would guess someone called you an RX suck up so here we are as you prove to the world you aren't. That's 8th grade stuff Frank. Be a man one day and speak for what is right. Two faced guys who are nice to your face and then stick it in later to impress others are a dime a dozen.

Anyway let us know when the show is over. After you are done call Shrink and find out what is really going on if you are interested.

I don't have any sympathy for players (robbers) who get caught trying to abuse the system by stealing money from the books. They ruin it for all of us.

McIrish:

One other thing ...

When Wagers Paradise stiffed some people a few months back, you were initially hell bent for leather to exact some sort of payback on Buckeye Sports for hosting them.

If e-winner is indeed as bad as you believe them to be, have you yet applied that same level of ferociousness and tenaciousness towards getting some answers (and/or monetary compensation for the so-called victims) from Sirbet (an advertiser), who apparently are playing the same role as Buckeye did with WP?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scoob:
Why dont these scammers have to bear any responsibility here? If they are never punished for this type of activity they will never stop.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are giving them too much power with our money Scoob. An IP match and they not only boot you they take all your money? Back out all winning bets and keep the losers? No questions asked? Even the shit books wll give you what you won and show you the door. Confiscation of all money is too strong of a deterrence in my mind.

BTW if they wanted to stop this they could anytime, stop offerring them!! To present this stuff and then not be able to keep up wth it until a player asks for his money is crazy. "Oh we just noticed some IP matches, your winning bets don't count now".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> By the way, McIrish, your stance on this matter, conmbined with the Sick Gambler "trial", is a large part of the reason why you've alienated so many long-time Rx posters ... but you continue to brush it off as "Rx-Haters" holding some sort of grudge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL Halifax. I have heard this as long as i have posted here. Well before SG/Rio. Those who want to whine can always find a reason. Or is it like a name calling of sort. Stick to sportsbooking Halifax.

It was the fighting in the sports forums, the bashing in the offshore, It was BeantownJim, A few days ago it was all JJgolds fault and god knows what else i forgot.

We took care of that, so now a new whine comes into play

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Halifax:
The "pro-scammer" approach to the multiple-account scams that McIrish and The General have advocated provides zero incentive to the multiple account scammers to cease and desist.

If they do it without getting caught (which I'm sure 90% of them do), great ... they've got many extra $$$$ in bonuses (which they don't rightfully deserve), and higher effective betting limits.

If by chance they get caught and lose only the bonus, they really lose nothing, since the bonus was not supposed to be their's anyway. They have no downside, and no reason to stop. Heads I Win, Tails I Break Even.

By the way, McIrish, your stance on this matter, conmbined with the Sick Gambler "trial", is a large part of the reason why you've alienated so many long-time Rx posters ... but you continue to brush it off as "Rx-Haters" holding some sort of grudge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Halifax, I nominate this for the post of the month.

McIrish, I loved your reasoning. You made solid points. Scoob and Truthteller make solid points too.

The fact of the matter is, who appointed Ewinner as the moral police here? So their taking the money is going to "prevent" such behavior? I could agree with Ewinner not paying if they didn't keep the money for themselves. Ewinner could have said, "We want to punish them, but we don't want the money, so we are sending the money to (name an needy organization)"

What gets on my nerves is the arrogance that EWINNER has shown. It is not about principle as much as it is about EWINNER saying, "I won't pay and you can't do jack shit about it."

That is what sucks. Shrink repeatedly called them and asked them to call him - and what did he get? NOTHING. That's the arrogance!!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Halifax:
The "pro-scammer" approach to the multiple-account scams that McIrish and The General have advocated provides zero incentive to the multiple account scammers to cease and desist.

If they do it without getting caught (which I'm sure 90% of them do), great ... they've got many extra $$$$ in bonuses (which they don't rightfully deserve), and higher effective betting limits.

If by chance they get caught and lose only the bonus, they really lose nothing, since the bonus was not supposed to be their's anyway. They have no downside, and no reason to stop. Heads I Win, Tails I Break Even.

By the way, McIrish, your stance on this matter, conmbined with the Sick Gambler "trial", is a large part of the reason why you've alienated so many long-time Rx posters ... but you continue to brush it off as "Rx-Haters" holding some sort of grudge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I posted this in another thread...

Halifax-

If you don't use some level of OBJECTIVE measure to decide these issues then how do you protect the buddies who are roomates at State U. and bet similar games from the same PC?

[Edit] What if Ewinner noticed 2 months ago that the bets from mulitple accounts came from the same IP and was taking a shot at the player (waiting for them to lose)?

The proscammers are disgusting but the BOOKS MUST INSTITUTE RULES that protect their businesses from scumbags. The protections should include clear rules that can be reviewed by 3rd parties when problems arise. The problem here is that you have unscrupulous books AND players so they each try to fvck each other. The only way to decide things fairly is to use written rules and actual evidence.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick McIrish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scoob:
Why dont these scammers have to bear any responsibility here? If they are never punished for this type of activity they will never stop.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are giving them too much power with our money Scoob. An IP match and they not only boot you they take all your money? Back out all winning bets and keep the losers? No questions asked? Even the shit books wll give you what you won and show you the door. Confiscation of all money is too strong of a deterrence in my mind.

BTW if they wanted to stop this they could anytime, stop offerring them!! To present this stuff and then not be able to keep up wth it until a player asks for his money is crazy. "Oh we just noticed some IP matches, your winning bets don't count now".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pat - You didnt answer my question. Forget about the book for a minute. Why dont these scammers have to bear any responsibility here?

edit: Not sure what the hell happened here.

[This message was edited by Halifax on September 30, 2003 at 10:28 PM.]