When Rio/Skbook changes the line in the middle of a wager, is it ever in your favor?

qs185 · Jul 26, 2003

At Rio / Skybook, when you have a line changed on you in the middle of making a wager, what percentage of the time is it changed against you, and what percentage of the time is it in your favor?

I do not ever remember having a line changed in my favor, but am willing to admit this MIGHT be selective memory (I really don't think that it is, but am open to the possibility).

I am NOT a steam chaser. I am, however, a line-shopper.

And, I realize that baseball lines move more closer to game-time. But, if I am making a bet close to game time, it is normally because I am going against the prevailing line movement.

I like Rio / Skybook a lot. I think they are great and their free (well, relatively inexpensive) half-point has made me a lot of money.

However, this experience is just leaving a bad feeling with me and I was wondering if others had similar experiences.

Thanks,
Bart

arbking · Jul 26, 2003

You will never have it in your favor. The system only tell you about a line change when the change is to their disadvantage. Pinnacle have it the same way.

DarrylParsons · Jul 26, 2003

I agree with arbking. I've noticed the same thing at both IIS and Pinnacle. I've considered doing an experiment on 2 computers with 2 different accounts to prove it:

On one computer keep refreshing the screen until there is a line change. Make sure not to refresh the other computer. Then make small bets on both machines on opposite teams, selecting the WORSE line in both cases. Submit the bets simultaneously. Since you are selecting the worse odds, both will be accepted. What you will have as a result is consecutive bet numbers for the same game showing that the actual line was WORSE than the advertised 8c juice. This is proof of wrongdoing right there.

To illustrate, consider the following example:

Suppose you want to bet on NYY-BOS and the lines are as follows:

Machine A Machine B
NYY -138 -138
BOS +130 +130

Then every 30 seconds you refresh machine A until a line changes. Then you will have, say:

Machine A Machine B
NYY -142 -138
BOS +134 +130

Then on machine A place a bet on NYY for $14.20 and on machine B bet $10 on BOS. Submit these bets at the exact same time (or at most a fraction of a second apart).

If the book were 100% honest it should reject the bet on Machine B because the line has changed. But you will see at these two shops it will accept both. The screens, which will show consecutive bet numbers (or very close to that) will prove the wrongdoing beyond any sort of reasonable doubt.

areeff · Jul 26, 2003

I went in Top Foods the other day and they had a sandwich Buy1Get1Free. I was in a hurry and i just grabbed one. Thankfully the sweet F-ck the company checker told me and i got 2 for one but if she didnt say anything i was happy getting my favorite club focaccia for 3.99. Now i got two.

I wasn't getting screwed if she didnt tell me but i was getting a nice deal that she did.

castaway · Jul 26, 2003

That is the way Extension Soft software is designed. If the line moves in favor of the player then he can't bet the previous number. If a line moves in favor of the book then of course it will allow the player to lay or take the "bad/old" number.

lander · Jul 26, 2003

I've noticed the same thing, but to be honest I'd probably code my book the exact same way ...

Ninja · Jul 26, 2003

I have never had the line change in my favor at Pinnacle or Rio/Skybook.

IMO, that's unethical and dishonest. Books that do this should review and then change this unfair practice.

petyos · Jul 26, 2003

I seem to recall at one that at Jazz I got a better number than what I was gonna take. Not hundred percent though

JoeyC · Jul 26, 2003

I'm 99.9% sure that with INET software if a line moves, it adjusts both ways, which is the correct way.

raiders72001 · Jul 26, 2003

I'm pretty sure at Pinnacle that you can get a better line if that's the way it's moved.

DarrylParsons · Jul 27, 2003

raiders, the only time I've seen Pinnacle reject a bet when the line moves in the player's favor is when the point spread number changes, ie. from -6.5 to -6 points or something like that.

If only the moneyline changes, like with 99% of line moves, then they will accept the worse line and reject the better one from the old line. Here I am talking about a move from -6 -108 to -6 -105 for example on hoops or football, or any move on MLB.

areeff, I disagree with your example because you are talking about a special. I am talking about the everyday price of something. It would be like if the price of the sandwich changed permanently to $3.49 but they deliberately changed the price tag only on some sandwiches and deliberately let the computer accept the old price of $3.99 if someone didn't notice the new price. I know you would still be willing to pay $3.99 but the store is still cheating and would probably get hit with a big fine if it could be proven that it was intentional.

PatrickMcIrish · Jul 27, 2003

I get better lines sometimes, I know I have at CanBet just this week. However not indicting anyone (may be coincidental) but a few books I have never got a better price. If the practice of only allowing you to bet the worst line is around I would call that unethical myself.

Let us know if anyone does a test on this, I would be very interested. Any software that does not allow the "new" line to be bet on either side is bogus in my opinion.

DarrylParsons · Jul 27, 2003

Patrick,

Canbet is fair on this one according to my experience. They reject bets in both directions, or at least they have done so for me. It is Pinnacle and IIS which do the selective rejections.

And we are not talking about rejecting the "new" line. We are talking about NOT rejecting the "old" line if the player bets on a certain team, but rejecting if the player bets on the other team. This means that the line is not really an 8c line unless you refresh your screen every 2 seconds.

Halifax · Jul 27, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by castaway:
That is the way Extension Soft software is designed. If the line moves in favor of the player then he can't bet the previous number. If a line moves in favor of the book then of course it will allow the player to lay or take the "bad/old" number.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you certain this is how Extensions software works (you are probably correct - I just wanted to verify this)??

One thing to remember, for the people who never seem to have an odds change move in their favour, is that probably everyone who has commented in this thread is line shopping. As such, you are already betting on a good number which is on the "outer limits" as far as the relative "goodness/value" of that number. Chances are VERY strong that if there is a change in the odds for that number, it will be a reversion back towards the mean (which means you will USUALLY be on the receiving end of a WORSE number, if there is a change).

[This message was edited by Halifax on July 27, 2003 at 06:23 AM.]

DarrylParsons · Jul 27, 2003

Patrick,

We can do the test on two separate computers if we communicate in the meantime. All you have to do is be willing to place a $10 bet on a random team with an unfavorable line. You will take one side, and I'll take the other and then I will email you my screenshot which will have a bet number very, very close to yours (hopefully consecutive if we do it right).

If you are into it, let's meet in the chatroom at 11:45 am eastern time today and we can discuss the details.

Deal?

PatrickMcIrish · Jul 27, 2003

Sounds good right now DP. Is the chatroom working though? Tell you what, let's touch base at 1115 or so to make sure you and I are both here. Start a thread right here in off-shore. Deal? I am halfway planning on it but things come up often when I am doing this. Also if one of us can't make it maybe someone else will volunteer to do it.

Good point Halifax. Most here are playing the strong side of the number so rarely will it move towards you.

DarrylParsons · Jul 27, 2003

Patrick,

OK, 1115 is fine on a new thread which I will call "Pinnacle's line -- is it really 8c?". I could not log in to the chatroom either so I agree it is better on the thread.

Make sure you are logged in to your Pinnacle account, as I will be to mine. I will keep my screen static and you should note all the lines and refresh yours every minute or so. When you see a line change (of at least 2 points, say) post the new line. Then I will post an exact time (about 1 or 2 minutes away) at which we should place simultaneous bets. Probably we should be logged in to www.time.gov to make sure we are dealing with the exact same clock to the second. We prepare the bets and when the time comes we hit the submit button at the exact moment.

If you want, we could reverse the roles if that is easier for you. The whole thing should not take more than about 10 minutes.

neilm · Jul 27, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joey C:
I'm 99.9% sure that with INET software if a line moves, it adjusts both ways, which is the correct way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joey C,

I am 100% certain. This has happened on occassion for me with both Las Palmas and Bowmans, both of whom run INET. You cannot believe the joy experienced when this happens...shop 15 books for teh best line try to bet it...and they make you take an even better price!

When Rio/Skbook changes the line in the middle of a wager, is it ever in your favor?

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