Is this an example of Defrauding/Scamming?

suetoneous · Jul 26, 2003

Hypothetically, let’s suppose you call a friend and ask him if he would like to make a quick 2K. He, of course, is interested. You tell him you want to deposit his 10k into a certain sportsbook that is offering a 20% bonus. You’ll fulfill all the requirements required by the book to qualify for a withdrawal of the bonus and deposit. All your friend has to do is sit back and wait…maybe 3/4 months for you to complete the requirements. Naturally, your friend wants to know what’s in it for you. You tell him you’ll get a referral bonus of 10% and you’re going to try to hit middles i.e. very little or no risk to your friend’s money. Any middle you hit goes to you – not the friend. Now your friend isn’t really sure how it works, but he trusts you and gives you the money. You then set up a Neteller account for him – with his consent – and withdraw 10k from his bank account. You tell him to call you in 3/4 months and you’ll have his money for him.

Would some or most sportsbooks regard this hypothetical here as defrauding/scamming?

JackDee · Jul 26, 2003

no, but what's your agenda?

sickgambler · Jul 26, 2003

if that is no, then why the f uck are people saying i scammed. That is exactly what i did, but even less severe. My guy knew i was betting with him as he is my partner. so what the hell is the difference here. there is NO difference here between this case, and mine. NO diff at all.. thanks sue, good post.

suetoneous · Jul 26, 2003

JackDee, I have no absolutely agenda.

Reading Sick Gambler's posts, I believed it went something like the hypothetical example. I think the senerio I layed out above is common. I'd like to hear what others think.

JackDee · Jul 26, 2003

"if that is no, then why the f uck are people saying i scammed. That is exactly what i did, but even less severe. My guy knew i was betting with him as he is my partner. so what the hell is the difference here. there is NO difference here between this case, and mine. NO diff at all.. thanks sue, good post."

some people have alleged sick that you did the exact same thing only with a multiple id fraud, that is you somehow split yourself in 5 or 10 to get more bonuses, that's what some have said.

krackman · Jul 26, 2003

Books pay bonuses to get NEW REAL customers and not for one guy to have five accounts under different names. I have accounts that I have rolled over 50+ times and it would be wrong of me to close up take their money and send it back to them a few weeks later under a different name to get a bonus. THEN THEY ARE PAYING A BONUS TO GET THE SAME BUSINESS THEY ALREADY HAD.

Now there are situations where I would of stuck up for sick if he,the other name(s),and the books knew what was going on.
Perfect example is Dave from Rio knows me and also knows two other people I know from New York. They wanted to play at Rio but are from the old school(one guy is Ronny and he still listens to 8 tracks LOL)he does not have a computer. These guys wanted to play at Rio and I set them up accounts at Rio and neteller accounts online.

suetoneous · Jul 26, 2003

Krackman, if sick gambler had five *fictitious* names (i.e. the people did not exist) for the sole purpose of aquiring bonuses, then I would say that that is obvious fraud. But if he brought in *new clients*, regardles of whether he was playing the accounts or not, then I see no problem. The books want to post ups, and the action. If they didn't offer bonuses, then I think it's safe to say, people like sick gambler would not persuade his friends to post up at the book. Right?

krackman · Jul 26, 2003

They offer bonuses for NEW customers. Not the same one using other people's names.

If any sportsbook comes in here and doesn't agree with me then I will take it back and side with you.

DENIRO · Jul 26, 2003

there are alot of situations or cracks in alot of different businesses.

scalpers buying tickets to concerts or ballgames. actual people reselling them at 5x the price

people going back and forth inside ballparks to buy those big headed dolls(forgot the name)and reselling them at ebay

i remember hearing at the news, people buying 40 cheap tickets and getting 40 dolls. they would sell them at ebay making 100 profit per doll.

this shit happens all the time
walmart sales, mail in rebates etc etc etc fuvkinetc

funny thing is the offshore is playing the angel wo is me when their trying to hide from the us govt &irs

loopholes=offshore sports gambling

lets be men about this. i think offshore spts gamb is great, but dont fvkin cry

advertise 3-5% bonus which it really is with the rollover and dont open yourself up with 20%bull- oh yeah 3% doesnt look good compared to 20%

Amitightornot · Jul 26, 2003

Why dont you just die!?
I hate De Niro. he is a scammer

DarrylParsons · Jul 26, 2003

This reminds me of the Simpsons episode in which Bart gets caught up in a cigarette stealing operation for the mafia. When Bart asks the mafia guy "Isn't this wrong?" the guy responds:

"Is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?"

Then Bart says "well, no"

"And what if you have a big family, is it wrong to steal many loaves of bread?"

Bart: "I guess not"

"And what if your family doesn't like bread, and instead they like, say, cigarettes?"

Bart: "I never looked at it that way"

"And what if you don't just give them the cigarettes, but sell them at a price that's practically giving them away?"

Bart: "hmmm"

The Guesser · Jul 26, 2003

Bearding to get extra bonus $$$ or to bet more than the limit, or to re-enter a Book after being booted is scamming/fraud, IMO. Whether the other accounts are using ficticious names, or actual names of "friends" doesn't matter. The accounts are still being controlled by one person, who is using them to get something extra from a Book that is circumventing the book's rules. I have no sympathy when that person is found out and the Book takes their $$$ back. Anyone who does things like this knows they are playing with fire, and if they get caught, they re the last person I'll have sympathy for. I have sympathy for Players when a Book changes lines on them and steals $$$ after an event is over. That's a player who is being cheated, not somebody who bearding to break the rules.

GringoinCR · Jul 26, 2003

De Niro, what is your local offering these days? 0% bonus? Payouts once per week? 24 hour service? Does he pay a licence fee?

DENIRO · Jul 26, 2003

gringo
i think offshore books are great, but would you stop the fuvk crying you bitch

you think youre bunch of angelic people? you got some books that dont want any winners. can you believe that shit. we want you out. we only want losers.

D2bets · Jul 26, 2003

OK, say you have the situation where you sign up for a friend with friend's money and play for him. Now let's say that friend is a "partner" in the venture -- that is to say that the friend gets a share of all income/loss -- say 50%. Is this still a fraud??? Your friend is the customer and has an interest since he shares in profit/loss, right? He simply defers to you in terms of deciding which picks to play and in return gives a portion of the profits. This is really just like paying a tout for your picks, just with a slightly different financial arrangement (% of profit/loss vs. fixed fee).

My opinion is that it's only a fraud if the friend has no pecuniary interest in the account's activity.

By the way, I just read this thread now and while I'm aware some stuff is going on with SickGambler I don't know the detaisl of that at all other than waht I've seen in this thread from him.

JackDee · Jul 26, 2003

de niro, although i agree with you by and large, i gotta point out that even whithin any given mafia there are some rules, even if most offshore books are scammers and 20 % bonus a joke, to sign up with multiple accounts is a scam too.

DENIRO · Jul 26, 2003

i never said multiple accounts in 1 book were NOT scams
im against it, however they advertise falsely which opens holes (referrals)

this is what i do
ex deposit reload 5000
play COMPLETELY ALL THEIR ROLLOVER requirements which i try to get 5% total of all bets

so im betting w/ 5% vig

after im over $100 the rollover requirement, i withdraw
i have over 5 accounts at once(different books ), so i dont do this in order,but when 1 of my account is over i reload at a different book at once

every wager i pay 5% juice

this isnt scamming or whoring

i dont know what they are crying about
with the rollover they are not losing much of anything with even mutiple accounts by 1 person- but yes it is a scam

sorry to gringo im ready for football
enough from me

kimchee · Jul 26, 2003

I Don't BeGRUDGE anyone who can get an Edge . Christ , the Books have the natural vig ; What the fvck do we get ? If someone like Deniro is trying to get the most value as the system is layed out , who are we to judge him ? " you go knock'em out Lamotta !!! "

Is this an example of Defrauding/Scamming?

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