Scientists Discover Planetary Patriarch & More

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Another Day, Another Dollar
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Astronomers have detected the Methuselah of planets, a world many times older than any other known, a remarkable survivor formed in a violent, primordial setting where planets were not thought to exist.

About 800 times more massive than Earth, the planet was born around a yellow, sun-like star about 13 billion years ago. That is about 9 billion years earlier than any planet previously detected and a mere billion years after the big bang that spawned all space and time -- a time, most astronomers believe, when the universe had yet to create the raw material needed to make planets, according to researchers who revealed their findings yesterday.

The discovery could change theories about how easily nature makes planets from even the skimpiest of raw materials, and about the abundance of planets -- including some that might harbor life -- thriving unexpectedly in odd corners of the cosmos, astronomers said.

"What we think we've found is an example of the first generation of planets formed in the universe," said Steinn Sigurdsson of Pennsylvania State University, a member of the observing team. "We think this planet formed with its star 12.713 billion years ago, when the [Milky Way] galaxy was . . . just in the process of forming."

For a decade, the identity of this object had been an astronomical mystery. The observing team solved it by combining the sharp vision of the Hubble Space Telescope with other instruments and techniques, plus many years of inventive detective work. The results were announced at a NASA headquarters news conference yesterday and in today's issue of the journal Science.

Confirmation that the object is a planet "is a stunning revelation," said Alan P. Boss of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, an expert on the formation of planetary systems who is not a member of the observing team. "This means that 13 billion years ago, life could have arisen and then died out," he said. "This has immense implications."

Andrew Fruchter of the Space Telescope Science Institute, a specialist in pulsar studies not on the discovery team, said the evidence seems convincing but noted that it is only one example. "These are very early days in the study of extrasolar planets, and it probably is too early to rule them in or out just about anywhere," he said.

Less than a decade ago, astronomers were still struggling to confirm the first planet detected beyond the family of the sun. Now, the population of known extrasolar planets exceeds 100. But the latest addition breaks the mold in several ways, Boss said.

Today, the planet orbits an odd couple made up of a cold, collapsed star called a white dwarf and an even more bizarre companion known as a pulsar, which spins on its axis almost 100 times a second. The newfound planet is the only one known to orbit such a double star system.

This eccentric trio resides at the core of the ancient globular star cluster M4, about 5,600 light-years from Earth in the direction of the summer constellation Scorpius. That cluster is visible in binoculars as a fuzzy white smudge very near the bright star Antares.

The planet's habitat is as noteworthy as its longevity, astronomers said. The cluster was the site of a furious firestorm of star birth in its early history, and the young planet must have survived blistering ultraviolet radiation, the shockwaves of stellar cataclysms known as supernovas and other mayhem.

Also, in what is possibly most significant for theories of planet formation, the setting has almost none of what Boss called "feedstock" for making planets. The globular cluster formed so early in cosmic history that it was deficient in heavy elements, such as carbon, silicon and oxygen -- the building blocks of planets such as those in our solar system. All the heavy elements that fill the modern universe were cooked up over time in the nuclear furnaces of successive generations of stars.

But 13 billion years ago, the cluster was almost all hydrogen and helium gas, with only about 1/30th the heavy elements found in our own sun and planets, Boss said. With this deficit in the stuff of rocks, ice and other presumed essentials, some astronomers had argued that globular clusters could not spawn planets, and recent searches had seemed to confirm that.

The new discovery "offers tantalizing evidence that formation processes are quite robust and efficient at making use of a small amount of heavier elements," said Sigurdsson, lead author of the Science paper.

It also means that "the traditional way of making gas giant planets just isn't going to work in this case," Boss said, and that less widely accepted theories, such as one he has proposed that requires nothing more than gas, may get a boost.

The planet is too dim to be directly observed, but the team ferreted out its existence and inferred its tortured history by sifting through generous clues provided by its weird present-day setting -- especially by the pulsar's peculiar properties.

In the early 1990s, radio astronomers had timed the pulses the spinning pulsar emitted -- like beams from a lighthouse -- with exacting precision. They detected a complex wobble caused by the gravity of two unseen companions tugging at it.

The first companion was determined to be a white dwarf in a tight, 191-day orbit around the pulsar. But the other object, orbiting about 2 billion miles from the central pair, remained a mystery.

It was only when the Sigurdsson team used the Hubble Space Telescope to distinguish the movement of the white dwarf that it was able to determine the mass of the third body at 2.5 times the mass of Jupiter. "Several pieces of the puzzle were missing," Sigurdsson said. "The Hubble data snapped it all into place."

Once it determined this unlikely trio's characteristics, the team inferred its adventuresome recent history, which included a plunge through the heart of the cluster, a hostile encounter there that bounced it back out toward the cluster's outskirts, and the transformation of the planet's parent star into the white dwarf.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40612-2003Jul10.html

[This message was edited by The General on July 16, 2003 at 02:07 PM.]
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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If the Martians want to invade, now would be the time. The Red Planet is making its closest pass by Earth in 50,000 years over the next few months.

13-mars.jpg


Mars will swing very close to Earth during the next few months.



As it happens, the real invasion is by Earth. Five separate space missions are headed to Mars as that planet passes into "opposition" this summer. Opposition is astronomers' jargon for another planet lining up with our Earth and sun.

Close passages occur every few years, as Earth, running a faster inside track around the sun, laps its planetary peer. For sky watchers, the excitement arises from the fact that on Aug. 27 the two planets pass as close as they ever get, about 35 million miles apart instead of the usual distance of about 60 million miles. This will allow a particularly nice view of Mars.

"Absolutely it will be a mind-blower for amateur astronomers," says editor David Eicher of Astronomy magazine.

The planets pass so close this year because both orbit the sun in ways that are not perfectly circular. When Earth is in a more distant part of its orbit in relation to the sun, and Mars is in the part of its orbit that's closest the sun, the two planets are closer to each other.

Eicher says July may be the best time to look at the Red Planet, as Martian dust storms are expected to obscure the view next month.

In mid-July, Mars rises at about 10:30 p.m. in the constellation Aquarius in the southeastern sky in the USA. Except for the waning moon, to the right and above the planet, Mars will likely be the brightest object, "a notably deep orange," in the nighttime sky, Eicher says. To the naked eye, Mars will look about 1/40th the size of a full moon.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2003-07-13-mars-usat_x.htm
 

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Cool
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I'm wondering if there is anything one *can't* find out about on this forum.

On Aug. 27 when I step outside, I'll make sure to duck.
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Good read General.
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It raises the question of life on other planets. I, unfortunately have to be in the pessimistic camp. If there is life out there, why haven't they come to our neck of the woods? There is a famous theory that any race advanced enough would have built self-replicating starships and sent them out to the nearest stars (with potential planets) and in turn, those ships would utilize raw materials found in those solar systems and replicate more ships and send those out to other stars, ad infinitum. The Milky Way is old enough that civilizations could have been born billions of years ago and sent these ships out and reached pretty much every star in our galaxy. None have been by lately.
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Guys, are we REALLY ready for such a revalation, other people on other planets, as time passes by, we seen all forms of literature, movies, write ups, etc about aliens blah, blah, blah,
but hey, what if we do find other living "whatevers" out there, what happens, if they had 4 heads or some shiet like that, you think we can handle it?????????????

I personnaly dont think so, a lot of people will freak out, there will be pandamonium world wide, stocks, will probably drop to -100000, the churches will be over flowing, and the UN will be in meetings for 6 months non stop, only stopping to take a piss/shit, a nd hold bullcrap media announcements.

Are we really ready for something like that??
Maybe yes, maybe no, But life and beliefs as we know it now, will be turned up side dowm for sure.
 

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Darryl,

Give it time. you will "SEE IT ALL" on this forum Altice said it best

you will see threads from "you've got mail" to is there life on other planets and everything in between including Sports gaming related
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General:

You finally found out where Butch came from.

Good job Sherlock !
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There is a famous theory that any race advanced enough would have built self-replicating starships and sent them out to the nearest stars (with potential planets) and in turn, those ships would utilize raw materials found in those solar systems and replicate more ships and send those out to other stars, ad infinitum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also interesting, Frank Wallace wrote a book called We the Creators of Heaven and Earth where he lays out a detailed and compelling argument against contact by another race of entities. It goes something along the lines of:

Any group of people capable of insterstellar travel on anything more than a nominal basis (unlike an interstellar equivalent of our own level of solar system exploration, nominal and useless and too expensive to be worth anything) has to have achieved a degree of economic, social, scientific, and biological advancement so far superior to our own current state that we would not seem like much to them.

Economically speaking, so many milestones would be required for viable interstellar travel that we would have absolutely nothing of value to offer them -- not even as slaves, or food, because the need for leg & back assistance and sustenance would already be so economically fulfilled in that society that it would make no sense to take on bunch of frail, short-lived, weak beings that mature slowly (more than ten years before you can get any good cuts of meat off of a human, versus just a few months for a cow) and require tons of maintainance.

Socially, there would be some who might be interested in us, the way many people have a fixation on a given species of animal and claim that it's smarter and better than other animals, but it would not be much. So we would have nothing to offer them on a social level, except for the bestiality freaks among them.

From a technological standpoint, unless some of them are avid extraterrestrial anthropologists, we got dick to offer them.

So, they wouldn't have any incentive to contact us at all, and if there is any sort of advanced galactic culture out there, there is a very logical argument that it might in fact be illegal and a very serious crime to make contact with "undeveloped species" such as our own, that can't even figure out how to get a car from point a to point b without using the same basic technology we've used for over a century, and haven't stopped killing each other en masse for stupid reasons, and so forth. The introduction of such a race of creatures into an advanced society could even have catastrophic consequences for those to whom we would be introduced, and based on that premise, Wallace simply states that they may be "out there" -- that he himself believes that they are -- but they aren't planning on calling us any time soon, and if we're looking for any miracle energy sources, cancer cures, social solutions etc. we might better just get to work on them down here -- and that once we ourselves get "out there," we might well be very pleasantly suprised at what's waiting for us.


Phaedrus
 

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My theory is that dating works just like the commodities markets, ie. every woman has a price tag and the hotter she is, the higher the price. And the whole ritual about dating is just a negotiation about the price.

Women can be divided into three basic categories IMO depending on how she wants payment: cash, deeds, or attention.

Of course all women want a combination of all three but there is usually one which really stands out and in the other two her requirements are modest.

It sounds like the Tennessee chick wants number three (attention) more than anything. This is very good and I think this is the best type of woman. The ones who want cash will make you broke and the ones who want deeds will turn you into a slave so this type is the least of the three evils.

And don't think there are good women out there who come cheap in all three departments 'cause there simply ain't no such animal.

So your decision boils down to deciding if you are willing to pay the price. An hour long telephone conversation in which you give her your full attention and explain why you think she's being unreasonable etc. from her perspective, then tell her you love her etc. but she needs to understand etc. will be enough to get her back. If she made the trip before, she will make it again, but she has to see that you will pay the price in terms of the attention she wants.

So are you willing to pay? Yes or no? That's the whole question right there.
 

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Phaedrus: I've always thought that theory had more than a ring of truth to it. Based on a lot of sci-fi, Man is presented as a very important species, which has always cracked me up - it's like pre-Galileo times, when the Earth was the center of the universe - a lot of people simply replaced Earth with Man as the center. Here's a fact (reference available): Kenneth Arnold, the pilot who started the 'flying saucer' craze back in 1947, never said he saw 'flying saucers' - he said they looked like boomerangs that skipped like the motion of a flying saucer. However, the reporter wrote about the saucers and the rest is history. Based on that misinterpretation by a reporter, soon there were world-wide reports of flying saucers and NOT boomerangs - in other words, did aliens read the newspaper account and reconfigured their craft from the shape of boomerangs to flying saucers to match the newspaper story? Or is it possible people simply saw what they wanted to, by suggestion?

Vonnegut wrote a book called (I think) 'Sirens of Titan', in which it's revealed that Man was guided to build the current civilization for the only purpose of being able to produce a part that an alien starship needed for repairs - I think the on1y way aliens would actually visit here is completely by accident. We might have contact via the SETI route (radio telescopes detecting transmissions), but physical, purposeful contact? Extremely improbable to me. Hey, I am as sure as I can be without being certain that there are other intelligent forms of life in this universe, and I'm just as sure they wouldn't be travelling relativistic distances to visit us. They'd be seeking out others of their own or greater level.
 

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Jazz: I love Vonnegut; he has always been one of my favourite fictional authors. It is indeed The Sirens of Titan.

Here's one that will really bake your noodle:

In a subsequent commentary on We the Creators ... Wallace extrapolated his "race of gods" view of a society advanced enough to master interstellar travel ...

It is generally agreed on in the scineitfic community that no society from Earth or elsewhere will ever attempt manned interstellar flights at sub-light speeds, except in the drastic consequence of a "Noah's Ark" type of scenario -- no destination and no hope, just had to get de fock outa Dodge in a hurry for whatever reason. So, manned interstellar exploration will require the mastery of faster-than-light travel.

A race which could harness the sort of energy required to move at faster-than-light speeds is by the very nature of such an endeavour going to be in control of the atom. Not in the sense of knowing how to blow it up, but knowing how to truly manipulate it at the subatomic level, in order to create synthetic fuels on demand rather than be dependent upon the vagaries of the Periodic Table to produce whatever propellant is required.

A people that can control matter at the subatomic level can by default control a lot of things.

Like, making rocks into pot roast. No more hunger.

Like, making tanks into pot roast. No more war due to the ultimate expression of the Cold War "Mutual Assured Destruction," taken to such an extreme that the "sides" of the conflict have long since decided that the conflict was not nearly so important as that warm, fragrant, delicious pot roast.

Like, making pot roast into electricity.

Like, making water into penicillin.

And so forth.

Very suddenly, this society has absolutely zero need for anything that it cannot produce on it's own. And somebody wants to embark on a project that actually will cost more in the terms of capital, manpower and pot roast than any previous project in history -- an interstellar space mission.

Wallace's expanded theory states that a lot of societies put in that position would simply say, "fvck it. Not interested. Send the potroastbots. Set up a big listening array of some sort. Maybe we could find a nice planet and make it a tourist destination. Or maybe we could transform the entire asteroid belt into another planet right here in our system."

In other words, by the time technology reaches a level to credibly achieve interstellar space travel, the imperative to do so will have dropped off to zero.

This will obviously not apply to all cultures everywhere -- there may be many who have a sort of 'new frontier' mentality about things. There may be major disputes a la the Cold War which result in a large faction of a society simply pulling up stakes and going somewhere else. But it is not unthinkable that a great many cultures would reach a point where they were simply no longer interested and had no economic incentive to explore, and simply set out some sort of 'calling card' to let others know they were there and to drop them an e-mail sometime.


Food for thought.


Phaedrus
 

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There may have been some sense behind Independance Day. An out of universe presence would sure make enemies be friends quickly in our world.

As far as all this reading, it is very interesting to me. It is so exciting the thought of "what" is out there. Maybe nothing, But......
 

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LONDON (Reuters) - The number of asteroids likely to collide with Earth and cause huge damage is smaller than expected, scientists said on Wednesday.
A computer simulation developed by scientists in Britain and Russia shows that asteroids with a diameter of 200 meters (yards) will hit the Earth's surface about once every 160,000 years, instead of every 2,500 years.

"Fewer asteroids (than expected) will make it to the surface of the Earth," said Dr Phil Bland, of Imperial College in London.

If a massive near-Earth object measuring more than a kilometer (0.6 mile) in diameter slammed into the planet it would cause global devastation and kill an estimated quarter of the world's population.

But scientists believe an event of that size would only occur about every 700,000 years.

Hollywood films such as "Deep Impact" and "Armageddon" raised public awareness of the threat of near-Earth objects and have prompted calls for early warning systems.

Bland and Natalia Artemieva of the Russian Academy of Sciences used the computer simulation and existing data on impacts to reach their estimates which are reported in the science journal Nature.

A collision with the Earth 65 million years ago is thought to have wiped out the dinosaurs by changing the global climate. A smaller asteroid is credited with leveling 1,000 sq km (386 sq miles) of Siberian forest in 1908.


http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=3101786
 

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