Advantage Gamblers Disadvantaged? ..gaming control board asks for guidance

A Nevada Gaming Control Board member is asking the attorney general for 'guidance' about the limitations on the use of force by casino security personnel and the legal rights of advantage gamblers, who are able to gain an edge in casino games by employing legal means such as card counting or taking advantage of mistakes made by dealers or other casino employees. Although the Nevada Supreme Court has ruled that advantage gambling -- including such techniques as card counting, shuffle tracking and playing slot machines that are paying out more than their fair share -- is legal, several Nevada lawyers say there is a pattern of casino security personnel and state gaming control officers using intimidation and excessive force to deter advantage gamblers from playing at local properties.


Advantage gamblers say they were illegally detained, questioned and abused by casino security guards and control board agents and even charged with unrelated minor crimes after being caught using advantage gambling techniques in Las Vegas casinos. Bob Siller of the Nevada Gaming Board claims there is “nothing new about this treatment”.


Siller's request for a letter opinion on what Nevada's gaming regulations and laws on advantage gambling are and should be have been referred to Mike Wilson, the assistant chief of the gaming division in the attorney general's office.


Wilson, however, said he could not discuss the current laws because Siller instructed him to refer all such questions back to the control board member. He also said he could not comment because of his 'lawyer-client' relationship with the Gaming Control Board.


'You have to ask Siller,' Wilson said. Siller, however, declined to comment any further on the current regulations pending an opinion from Wilson.


Gary Peck of the Nevada ACLU chapter found the two officials' refusal to comment further on the state's laws 'very disturbing.'


'This sort of gamesmanship is very troubling and raises questions about their view of their jobs. They are supposed to be serving the general public. These songs and dances only serve to undermine the credibility of the Gaming Control Board and, indirectly, of the gaming industry itself,' Peck said.


Las Vegas professor and casino gambling expert Bill Thompson added the state government 'must have a clear policy that can be reviewed by the courts. This is the state depriving people of their rights. The state is playing the issue off the cuff, and (the law) needs to be cleared up.'


Spokesman for Harrah's Entertainment and MGM Mirage said their companies simply ask advantage gamblers to leave, which Nevada courts have said is within their legal rights.


MGM Mirage spokesman Alan Feldman added, however, 'the suggestion that they're just using their brain power is a real oversimplification. They're abusing a system that is set up to reward people for their play. Ultimately, other customers are taken advantage of in the process.' @@

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MGM Mirage spokesman Alan Feldman added, however, 'the suggestion that they're just using their brain power is a real oversimplification. They're abusing a system that is set up to reward people for their play. Ultimately, other customers are taken advantage of in the process.' http://www.onlinecasinonews.com/ocnv2_1/article/article.asp?id=3645<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a load of crap. Advantage gambling is not illegal nor immoral. Poor, poor casinos only want to have suckers. Whatever you do, leave your brain at the door when you enter a casino or you might just get pushed around.

David

Ha Ha, this is very funny. Yhe other day at Rampart Casino, I saw a guy playing blackjack and he was obviously counting cards, and quite well, I might add. Anyway, he won approximately $17,000 in abount 2.5 hours and guess what? They confiscated the guys winnings and roughed him up a little. I mean they hand-cuffed him and took him out of sight of the other players. I told one of the pit bosses that they were definately looking at a very large lawsuit, in excess of the $17,000 the guy won.
Now down at Binion's the other day, I see an asian guy playing blackjack, I watch him play and can tell he is counting the cards, anyway I sit down and play with him. About five minutes later the pit boss comes over and tells the guy that he can play any game in the house except blackjack.
Now that is the way to handle an advantage player, not handcuffing and confiscating his winnings.
All I can say is that I am very careful with my bet spreads when playing blackjack and I frequent different casinos at varying times due to the "heavy handed" actions of the casino personnel.

First, all of this will make sense once you realize that the casinos run the Gaming Control Board, Metro (Las Vegas' finest),state and local politicians and all the judges. I'm not letting the cat out of the bag here. Anyone that's lived here for more than 20 or 30 minutes knows this.

Bobby Siller is an idiot. He recently asked for "guidance" and to be "brought up to speed" on the handling and rights of advantage gamblers. This guy needs guidance to open his front door in the morning. He's a member of the Gaming Control Board and wants someone to clarify the duties of his job. If that's the case, then he needs to find another job. You haver to remember this is the same clown that recently questioned the mayor as to why he invited someone in the Black Book to his daughter's wedding. That's none of Siller's business. The Black Book means only that people listed in it cannot enter a casino in the state of Nevada. That's how clueless this guy is.

Casinos have the right to refuse service to anyone they want to and do not have to provide a reason. That is their right but they do not have the right to illegally detain and confiscate the winnings of an advantage gambler. It is not illegal to count cards, track shuffles, look at the hole card because the dealer is sloppy or play machines that pay out over the normal payout schedule. It is also not illegal to play the slots as part of a "slot team" but the casino has the right to ask all of the above mentioned type players to leave. Fine. Tap them on the shoulder and tell them to pick up their chips, cash out and leave the property.

What has been happening lately is actually second degree kidnapping and any casino personnel involved in this should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Bobby Siller isn't the only one that doesn't know his job. Keith Copher, the chief of the enforcement division of the Gaming Control Board doesn't know what day of the week it is either.

Another good one are these blackjack tables and shoes that "read" the cards. I saw one at the gaming show last year that was downright chilling, it was a single deck game being dealt by a dealer and above it was the display you get with the system. It gives you a complete running count at the moment as well as a graphic on the skill of your players. Its not marketed as skill, its marketed as "what edge the computer estimates they give your casino", just so the bosses can figure out proper comping percentages. Yeah right! This same company had a brochure that talked about the product and included the sentence, makes cheating including dealer collusion, shuffle/card tracking, and card counting, a thing of the past. Gee news to me that shuffle tracking and card counting are "cheating". That is chilling stuff, I mean its one thing to tell people they can't play a game if they are too talented at it, but to call them cheats because they think about the game and use simple observation and math skills to play the game better than they are supposed to? Amazing, simply amazing.