An observation about Touts and Tout services??

Journeyman · Jul 6, 2003

ok you wanna sell picks, isn`t it easier to find a couple good cappers and then just use their picks and market them...after all tout services are made or broken on how they are marketed....

its not where the picks come from that makes a tout...i would bet most touts don`t even know sports that well...i know a couple personally who are like this....they never talk sports , just how many customers they have,lol..

so really finding decent picks and a good way to market is all that is important...and anyone can do this, just look around

Journeyman · Jul 6, 2003

A tout close to me would give out his plays as they came in to him ...which to me made no sense at all....any good tout will get his plays out ASAP so his customer can get down and find the best numbers......

BigRagu · Jul 6, 2003

Jman.. the problem with some gamblers is that they want to believe that their are people out in the sports gambling world that have inside information or a system that is unbeatable. There is no such thing, Touts are just players themselves. They will hit hot and cold streaks.. all players do. For someone to advertise that they hit 70% is insane, any so called Vegas wiseguy will tell you that they need about 54% or so to eek out a living and adding a couple more percentage points would make for a good year.

My advice would be to stay away from touts, and learn from your mistakes in order to become a better gambler. Money Management is probably the single most important factor when betting, it's a year long game with peaks and valleys and with smart management a bettor can survive those valleys.

Ragu

Banned4Life · Jul 6, 2003

Biff's Almanac was a wannabe tout who backed up his talk with 58% in college hoops last year. I've seen the program he uses and know that he's one of the hardest working college hoops cappers you'll find and he's been doing it for 10+ years. BTW I'm not shilling for him or advising anyone to send him money.

-Slim- · Jul 6, 2003

theyre about as bad as scammers...

next?

BigRagu · Jul 6, 2003

Banned... Although I wouldn't use a Tout Service personally, I would at the very least believe someone that avertisings that he hits 58% of his plays in a particular sport over a year, advertising that a service hits 70 or 80% is ridiculous.

Ragu

packer2012 · Jul 6, 2003

Ok.... Let's say someone does win 58%.
Do the math including amount played per game and money paid to tout.
I would be willing to bet 99.9% of players cannot make a profit with ANY tout based on this reasonable formula.
The vig is next to impossible to overcome.
So how ya gonna overcome the vig PLUS payments to some half-arsed tout.
NO BRAINER boys!
I have fallen prey too. Touts are people who want to gamble. Trouble is they want to gamble with OUR money, not their own.
They "win" up front by getting paid.
What about "pay after you win", you say? People bet more than normal to cover the cost of the play... lose their ass.. you know the story.
Hey... What about "If you lose, I will give you more of the same worthless shit to compensate you!"
Come on boys! This is a joke! Just another way to take advantage of weak, stressed, desperate players. The books don't have a corner on screwing people, after all!
If I don't get a bunch of AMENS on this post.... Then you all are some sick assed puppies!
We have not mentioned everyone's uncontrollable urge to add more plays and get completely jack-hammered.
Your chances of profiting from paying a tout are approximately the same as hitting the powerball. Only, last time I heard, it costs a hell of a lot more than a dollar to find out!

[This message was edited by Packer on July 06, 2003 at 12:58 PM.]

FairWarning · Jul 6, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Packer:
Ok.... Let's say someone does win 58%.
Do the math including amount played per game and money paid to tout.
I would be willing to bet 99.9% of players cannot make a profit with ANY tout based on this reasonable formula.
The vig is next to impossible to overcome.
So how ya gonna overcome the vig PLUS payments to some half-arsed tout.
NO BRAINER boys!
I have fallen prey too. Touts are people who want to gamble. Trouble is they want to gamble with OUR money, not their own.
They "win" up front by getting paid.
What about "pay after you win", you say? People bet more than normal to cover the cost of the play... lose their ass.. you know the story.
Hey... What about "If you lose, I will give you more of the same worthless shit to compensate you!"
Come on boys! This is a joke! Just another way to take advantage of weak, stressed, desperate players. The books don't have a corner on screwing people, after all!
If I don't get a bunch of AMENS on this post.... Then you all are some sick assed puppies!
We have not mentioned everyone's uncontrollable urge to add more plays and get completely jack-hammered.
Your chances of profiting from paying a tout are approximately the same as hitting the powerball. Only, last time I heard, it costs a hell of a lot more than a dollar to find out!

[This message was edited by Packer on July 06, 2003 at 12:58 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You nailed it on the head. I do find however Marc Lawrence's Playbook, and Phil Steele's pub some nice reading (quick, informative). I don't use these as the gospel, just as a different way of looking at a game.

lander · Jul 6, 2003

Jman,
Great thread.

If the RX were a caste system we'd have something like this

---> Kenny
.
.
.
.
---> Untouchables
.
.
--> ID
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
---> Tout

Journeyman · Jul 6, 2003

there is NO DOUBT some tout services are great , but when a tout claims he is behind the picks he gives out......HOGWASH!

its marketing and knowing who`s plays to use.....

Woody0 · Jul 6, 2003

It's interesting the lengths they go to. I received several phone calls after getting "free picks" from a web site. After many refusals the final caller said he'd put me on the shit list.

I was ready with my reply for the next call but never got the chance to use the line "Oh I'm on the xxxx list"

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jul 6, 2003

I think the majority of you are a little confused about Handicappers...

There is a night and day difference between Handicappers and Touts. There ARE people out there that if you are weak in a particular sport you should pay to assist you if you don't wish to remain idle during that particular season.

I hate to keep saying Ben Burns because I feel like I am shilling for him but he is the best example I can come up with (sorry to my other handicapper friends that don't come to mind as I compose this).

Anyway, he is the ultimate professional, 99% Handicapping 1% Marketing. The most marketing he does it to let people know he exists. He doesn't spam, he doesn't pound the boards and I don't think he even has a phone number. He bets everything he offers to his members and is a documented, proven winner.

He to me is a Handicapper and someone that should be utilized when you don't want to ride the bench on a particular sport.

To me a "Tout" is a milleniun version of telemarker. Their product is nothing more then a pipe dream and they will utilize their savy to prey on your weaknesses. They are 100% marketing and 0% handicapping.

Bottomline is that there is a HUGE difference between Handicappers and Tout's and it's only fair that Handicappers are seperated from their less then honest counterparts.

MC

Journeyman · Jul 6, 2003

Good info Michael...

Another sign of a tout on board a website is when they don`t give any analysis.....

Jake Thompson, yes he has taken alot of heat in the past but he did give out solid baseball analysis and great write-ups...And it was obvious to me it was his very own analysis, he`d have his write-ups out in the middle of the night, TO GIVE ANYONE THEIR BEST SHOT AT THE NUMBERS...Kudos to JAKE!

packer2012 · Jul 6, 2003

Two questions...
If someone is a "handicapper" with no phone number... What does he charge and how do people know about him if he does not market?

Even if guy in question #1 exists... You still cannot make a profit paying him and paying the juice!

Fairy tale... Won't happen!

True HANDICAPPERS don't even show up in the books, much less in your email or phone records!

Thanks you and don't forget to tip your waitress!

packer2012 · Jul 6, 2003

ALSO....

To FairWarning.... Thanks for the support. You show intellect far beyond your peers.... uh... I mean years!

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jul 6, 2003

No idea what he charges but for what he offers and the credentials he brings to the table regardless of the amount it is worth it IMO.

You don't need to over market if you have repeat clients and you treat them well. He strives to be the best handicapper, not the biggest. All of those that are successful have that same mentality.

And when he does market he does it right. What is doing it right mean? Spending money! He advertises in reputable magazines and websites. He doesn't just ride the coat-tails of what other have put together.

He truly is a businessman in every sense of the word. His product is just different.

And for the record you can pay a Handicapper and the Juice and turn a profit. Unless you are a $10 a game player and the service is $5,000 per sport that is a totally incorrect statement.

MC

SteveDJ · Jul 6, 2003

It can't be said any better than you have done in this thread. By bringing touts to light, you guys are helping this scam be uncovered for those who do not understand this fraud.

People that steal through touting should be horse whipped.

SDJ

packer2012 · Jul 6, 2003

Thanks Steve! You are balls on accurate in your thoughts!
Now...
Not to hammer anyone... (Unless, of course, they richly deserve it!)
Ben Burns, George Burns, Micheal Cash, Johnny Cash.... whoever....

"No idea what he charges but for what he offers and the credentials he brings to the table regardless of the amount it is worth it IMO."

That may be one of the most, if not THE MOST ABSURD statement ever made on a public forum.
Give us a break. You are not talking to total morons under the age of 3. "No matter what he charges"... spoken like a shill of epic proportion.

Are you kidding me?

One of two things MUST happen next...

1) Michael (I Walk the Line) Cash has to moon walk backward very quickly and modify this statement, or

2) The next sound we hear will be any credibility Mr Cash has ever had leaving the planet!

Would Wilie Nelson please give us an AMEN on this!

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jul 6, 2003

Not likely to moonwalk out of any comments I make and how you view my credibility past, present or future is of no concern to me. Unlike others I do not post here or anywhere for acceptance of my view or a pat on the back.

If the best you got in rebuttle is to hang on my obvious tongue and cheek reference to those that have proven themselves being worth the amount they command then I have proved my point.

Obviously it's relative but we both know it's going to be cheap to some and a little pricey to others. Anyway, fact remains that depending on your financial situation; proven, documented handicappers have a place in this industry.

Save the post disection for someone else. My point was very clear and you know very well what I meant by "regardless of price".

Hope my response has left my credibility intact. Your acceptance means EVERYTHING to me Packer.

zzzzzzzzzzz!

MC

Banned4Life · Jul 6, 2003

Which is better... paying someone who can pick 58%, or picking your own at 50% (or worse)?

An observation about Touts and Tout services??

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