Western Union & US Treasury confiscating funds!

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Another Day, Another Dollar
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Got a report that a player was given a name to send funds to a book via WU and that WU refused to process transaction once the money was received since the receivers name was on a terrorist watch list. The funds were seized by the US Treasury and there was nothing WU could do until this person provided a valid ID in Costa Rica.

Has Anyone experienced this?
 

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JUST GREAT!!!
icon_frown.gif


This makes sending a W.U. offshore very risky if we get more reports like this.

SAD
 

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I KNOW IN THE PAST I HAVE SEEN REPORTS LIKE THIS ONE. BUT A TERROR WATCH LIST IS PRETTY DAM SERIOUS. AND THIS WOULD REALLY SUCK IF YOU HAD SENT BIG MONEY....BECAREFUL ........
icon_frown.gif
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hache man:
I did send once and was put through to someone who told me the specific name was on a "watch list".......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto..and it was cleared 20 seconds later
 
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I have never heard of a "terrorist watch list". I do know that there is a "US government watch list" and it makes it impossible to send or recieve money once you are on it. I went through a whole process trying to have my name removed from it but came up empty. They would not even tell me why I was even on it, but I was led to believe that once you send or in my case recieve a high amount of transfers you are placed on it.
 

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Reading aceduecetrey's post leads me to believe that fascism is alive and well in the U.S.....
 

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Yes, its true people who send or recieve money regularly so they can bet on sports may find themselves on the government terrorist watch list.Thanks Bush you piece of shit.
 

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OUCH!!......This hurts, and leads me to wonder if more sportsbooks will begin accepting PPATM as a deposit / withdraw method.

I currently use only Western Union and PPATM as sending / receiving options with several books. Hope I can continue the trend, but it doesn't look promising.

On several occasions, I have been asked for my ID when SENDING funds via WU, which I didn't exactly feel comfortable about. Also, there have been times with Olympic where I had to waive the ID, meaning the recipient didn't need to have an ID when receiving my funds. In that situation, the western union agent tells asks me to provide a brief description of the person.....UHHHH.....depending on the name, I'm not even sure if the person is male or female....LOL
 

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Something does not make sense! If an individual was sending money to a recipiant
on a watch list, the Government would not alert any of the parties that a red flag came up on the transaction. They would let the funds pass and investigate the individual sending the money as well.

USA PATRIOT Act - Under Section 326 of the Act, financial institutions must institute a Customer Identification Program (CIP) that contains reasonable risk-based procedures to:
Collect identifying information about customers opening an account
Verify that customers are who they say they are to the extent reasonable and practicable
Maintain records of customer information and methods used to verify their identity
Determine whether the customer appears on any list of suspected terrorists or terrorist organizations


It could have more to do with the reciever being someone flaged by the IRS or other department.

Rick Fitzimons
www.worldsportcenter.com
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The General:
Got a report that a player was given a name to send funds to a book via WU and that WU refused to process transaction once the money was received...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I presume this was an online WU transaction and not over the counter otherwise the agent could have been looking down the barrel of a 45. Isn't that the way they do business?
 

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Happen to have some in depth knowledge of this subject.

WU internal sets floor and ceiling limits on agents that send and receive. usually 2500.00 for flagged notification. ANU CR Curacau have flags at 10k per name then they notify the FINCEN (FInancial Crimes Enforecement Network) a US treasury agency that monitors for IRS,FBI etc. All electronic over 10k US per 30 days is available to all agencies. FBI and homeland can within second seize the funds (actually freeze them). The books use WU agents as a clearing house. In the Caribbean the official WU corporate line is that they do not allow gaming transactions, but like all financial service business operations, they want the business. They satisfied the Feds a few years ago by not allowing quick pay and quick collect to any gaming operation (or ones servicing gaming-fronts). After 9/11 they tightened up and allow them to freeze any transaction they want for 24 hours without justification. WU customer service has many terms, "terrorist watch list", "potential fraud" , "ID verification" etc.

Another is that local agents have to pay out in local currency, and angst for books, so deals are cut to pay out in dollars. In doing so the exchange rates are fixed by WU (a revenue center that they make allot of money in) and the local agents figure how to pay ot in dollars, then the local banks and gov't agencies (outside the US) have their reporting on dollar transactions to their respective authorities, when the numbers get high, things usually start getting complicated.

Anyways, hope it clears up some issues, all I know for sure, the books will always find a way to receive and send money.

Canuck23
 

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I have a question though -

Who are these couriers? Are they real people? Do they make money? I have had names like Bart Simpson, Lankon DeVrilles, Tom Brady, and Bidou DiKidou.

How are these real people? How does the relationship between the book and the courier work? Pinnacle has me send funds to Suriname every time - why?
 

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I would not believe any cieling amounts or info
about WU unlessI spoke to someone in a position to know. Speaking to a WU affiliate or owner is also not good enough because law enforcement won't divulge info just like that.



In the three days preceding September 11, four separate payments were sent to the United Arab Emirates by the alleged hijackers. All four were made through Western Union Financial Services Inc. agents in the U.S., according to law enforcement officials.

On Sept. 8 and 9, Mohamed Atta, who the FBI says was on American Airlines Flight 11 that crashed into the World Trade Center, wired a total of $4,000 from two Maryland locations to Mustafa Muhammad Ahmed, a top official in Osama bin Laden's organization--apparently returning excess funds. On Sept. 9, Waleed M. Alsheri, who was also on Flight 11, sent $5,000 to Ahmed from Boston's Logan International Airport. And on Sept. 10, Marwan Al Shehhi, who was on United Airlines Flight 175, sent $5,400 to him. A year ago, the suspected hijackers received money by at least two other transfers through Western Union, government officials said.

It is unclear whether Western Union realized the significance of the transactions until the FBI began its investigations. But money-laundering experts say transfers totaling nearly $15,000 to one person over three days is a red flag. ``Anything over $4,000, within one month alone, should get flagged,'' says Jorge Guerrero, president of the National Money Transmitters Assn. trade group. Western Union would not comment on the transfers or whether they had triggered an internal investigation, but said it is cooperating fully with the government. ``Unless an individual winds up on a list, we're not going to be able to stop those transactions,'' says spokesman David Banks.

The pre-September 11 payments aren't Western Union's only encounters with suspected terrorists. At least one of its 50 UAE agents operates out of an al Baraka Exchange storefront. The Treasury Dept.'s Office of Foreign Assets Control has identified al Baraka as part of the al Barakaat network of banks and companies, which it charges is involved in raising and moving funds for al Qaeda.

SPEED AND ANONYMITY. Money-transfer shops have grown exponentially in the past decade, fueled by legions of immigrants who send cash home. About $40 billion is transferred annually through the likes of Western Union, says The Nilson Report, a California newsletter. Western Union, by far the largest player, did 89 million transfers last year. The appeal to clients is obvious--cash moves around the world in as little as 15 minutes. No bank account or background check is necessary. Nor is an ID to send less than $1,000. Controls on recipients abroad vary. In the UAE, the limit was $55,000 until the government slashed it to $550 on Sept. 27.

The systems' very speed and anonymity make it attractive to terrorists, drug dealers, and others. ``If you gave me a million dollars, I could move it through Western Union inside of a week and it would be virtually untraceable,'' says Lyle Justus, former director of special projects at Western Union. Using small transfers and paying others to make them would be enough to beat the system, he says. Before leaving the company in 1997, when his job was eliminated, he helped develop Western Union's network in Latin America. ``When we set up branches in Colombia, Peru, and the Dominican Republic, business took off like you wouldn't believe. A lot of those guys picking up money between the U.S. and Colombia were standing outside the offices with bodyguards and guns under their coats. It was pretty obvious what was going on,'' he says. William Thomas, president of Western Union's international unit, calls Justus' claims ``irresponsible, false and unfortunate.''

However, Western Union may be vulnerable because of its phenomenal growth. In 1995, when it was bought by First Data Corp. of Greenwood Village, Colo., it was operating in 20 countries. It expanded by forming affiliations with local firms such as Al Baraka, and now has more than 117,000 agents in 187 countries. It controls about three-quarters of the market. In 2000, Western Union's revenue grew nearly 20%, to $1.8 billion, while operating profits rose 17%, to $540 million--about half of First Data's overall profits.

RADICAL CHANGES. Money-transfer agents have long tried to allay fears they are a hotbed of money laundering. They must get identification for every transaction over $3,000, report those over $10,000 to their state banking department, and voluntarily file Suspicious Activity Reports to the Treasury Dept. But until new legislation goes into effect in January, they have no federal regulator. The Patriot Act, aimed at tracking and stopping terrorist money, should bring some radical changes. ``The money-transfer business was caught in the crosshairs,'' says Donald Vangel, who is a partner with Ernst & Young. ``They're going to have to beef up their controls.''

On the ground, little seems to have changed yet. The teller at a Western Union desk in a Manhattan grocery store says the company is still operating the way it did before September 11. Western Union says it is continually reviewing its procedures.

U.S. government officials have pointed to the hawala system, which is used to transfer cash in the Middle East, as a possible conduit for terrorist money. That may be so. But, for now, America's own homegrown money transfer system apparently can easily be made to serve the same purpose.
 

acw

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Got a report that a player was given a name to send funds to a book via WU
Which name?
Which book?
 

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1. Suriname, there is a WU agent there that offers his services for books to supply them names and transfer locations in order to assure prompt services.

Floor and cieling, call WU ask what the max is to send via WU to CR ANU etc within any 30 day period, they will answer.

Bart Simpson, allot of agents inthe states have a ceiling that they have to ask for ID when you hit it, you have to supply ID, under it you can make up any name you want. So if you receive a WU from Bart, cool.


Bottom line, the more it is posted the more info on how the system works and how to get around it works. So keep up the good work....
 

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The transaction was done by a friend of mine. He was given a very common name(something Perez) to send a few hundred dollars too at a very popular book. The book chooses names out of the air. He then received a call back from WU stating that the recipient was on a watchlist and therefore needed an ID to pick up the money. He called the book who explained that they pulled names out of the phone book and there was not a person that they knew with that name. The book told the player to call WU to cancel the transaction. He tried but WU stated this couldn't be done. The book credited his account with the funds but as of now the transaction is still flagged through Western Union. The funds were sent to Costa Rica. I don't think the book is as important as the idea that almost all books are giving out names out of the blue. My advice is to send funds under someone elses name.
 

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One type of report is a Suspicious Activity Reportor (SAR) for transactions as small as $5,000, the other is a Currency Transaction Report (CTR), which tracks all cash transactions over $10,000.


Under the law, banks or wire companies can’t disclose to customers whether SARs have been filed on them. “When citizens are now falsely accused in a SAR of engaging in an illegal transaction they never know it and never have a chance to clear their name unless they are charged,” Nojeim says. “This is wrong. It has to be fixed. FinCEN should let the customer know or give the SAR back when they decide not to prosecute.”


This is why I find it hard o believe a WU would tell you the person you sent money to was on a terrorist list. If a terrorist is using WU he has 50 people he is paying to accept wires in increments of $500, I can't see him showing up at a WU with a name like Lashkar-e-Taiba Jaish-e-Mohammed and filling out a form to recieve $10,000.
 

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