RAISING THE BAR

RAISING THE BAR
June 22nd by The Shrink

It is a very sad time for offshore sports betting. Several sports books are experiencing financial hardship, some are on the verge of folding, while others already have.

A poster or two recently praised operators because they were paid promptly by a couple of sports books. One has to wonder why such jubilation about being paid in a timely manner. Isn't that supposed to be the norm? Don't ALL gamblers have the right to be paid IN FULL on demand? Isn't just ONE slow pay one too many?

A gambler called yesterday because he was being given the run around after winning a nice amount of coin from a sports book's online casino. This book never had any problems collecting the gambler's losses but since he hit a "jackpot," they are claiming "possible fraud." This tactic allows the sports book to delay payment, period. Weeks have gone by and there has still been no evidence to support any wrong doing by this gambler as he awaits his full payout.

Even sadder perhaps is the fact he is AFRAID to ask for ALL of his WINNINGS at one time, so he told me he was only asking for $2500 dollar increments.

Another travesty which occurs with regard to slow pays goes something like this. "Joe and Eddy are great guys, I am sure they will bounce back." Give me a break! Would anyone be saying this about bankers if you went inside for a withdrawal, but were told you'd have to wait a week, maybe more?

As long as the realm of offshore sports betting remains unregulated, there aren't many options for the gambler to choose if he isn't being treated fairly.

Can you imagine the cost of going to a foreign country, hiring an attorney and trying to litigate against an operator on their HOME turf? If you think the Home Field advantage is worth a lot in Football, it is worth even more in this instance.

Here's one final scary thought.

Theoretically, post up operations are supposed to have ALL of the gamblers' money available in some kind of escrow account, but the vast majority of them don't. They incur what is known as a post up debt. This means they have dipped into money they should not have. Insiders and other bookmakers tell me over 90% of post up sports books operate in this fashion.

While the online posting forums are ONE valuable resource for gamblers to use when they have a valid complaint, it isn't enough to make a dent into the bigger picture of slow paying. The main reason being is that only a small percentage of players belonging to these outfits are aware of this tool. They have no clue about posting forums and they probably couldn't find one even if they were asked to do so.

Until the bar is raised higher, the future of gamblers always being paid promptly remains dismal.

To do so requires regulation, or maybe, just maybe, a coalition of sports books working together to assure gamblers that if one book flops, others will be there to assist them.

Like always, time will tell, but I am not optimistic about regulation or any coalition coming about in the near future...

THE SHRINK

A coalition is a nice thought but but you and I know that will never happen. Why? Because these are all independent business men that don't really trust each other. Why not? Because they're basically gamblers at heart. And with the gov't's attitude toward offshore betting some of the "investors" will continue to pull out instead of risking the increased possibility of jail time. Add to this the ever increasing difficulty and scrutiny of moving money offshore it would seem to point towards the continued demise of a lot of the offshore books. I know no one wants to hear this but it's the truth. Scammers and fly by night operators have severely hurt the industry. Add to it the gov't scrutiny and increased risks and it all adds up to more book failures. The 'post up money in escrow' idea is great but we all know that is an idustry fallacy. Why? Because the books don't think the players will win so why escrow the money.... they think it's 'their' money once you send it to them. But booking is a lot harder than it used to be. There is so much more information available to the sharp player and even the squares today are sharper than they were 15 years ago. Why? The internet is the main reason. What local can shade is his lines towards the home teams anymore and not get run over with the visiting money? None. The locals I know have DB in front of them just like the offshore places do. You see more line movements today than you used to, at least IMO. All in all it doesn't bode well for the offshore industry.

MAX great post ....good article and read

Nice read Shrinkwrap......thanks.

shrink/max

i believe a few posts were made here yesterday about SGA. They are exactly what is mentioned in the article...a coalition of sportsbooks

drunkguy,

They are brand new with no experience or credibility. I don't know any of them, and they have proven their inexperience with derogatory comments to The General. Now if they want to call me and behave as a professional insitution should, I will talk to them...

Hello Shrink,
I would like to talk with you. How should I contact you?


Jim

u can also email me if you didnt see the number at aw222@aol.com

15 years ago a bookie could get away with being a moron, now they need to be sharp and most of them are pretty stupid, so yes alot of them going down.

This is why I said about 4 years ago that people who think books (any sportsbook) can run run on juice is fooling themselves.

It is also why foriegn books (offshore is a misnomer these days) need to keep losrs and post up money coming in.

It is also the reason why they dip into that post up money. Again, to think there isn;t a single book out there that hasn't done it is foolish as well, irregardless of the laws.

You think a book like Pinnacle (the best according to most) can operate on the hold they take without creative accounting? Even without a readily available 800 number what do you think their daily overhead is? DO you think the hold on the bets they take covers it? Or is even close?

Pinnacle in my opinion knows their niche. They are a scalp book, they have to know this, and they rely on the sharpness of their numbers to survive. While they probably have their one way action players, they know that for the most part the larger bets are coming from the guys playing both ways, especially this time of year. And that is key, almost all books lose money in bases, but I think Pin rakes it in, and that is the secret to their success.

Because this is the only tme you/they can fiddle with the odds to get clear advantes. In spread based bets everyone offers reduced juice, and what is reduced juice other than reduced odds. It is like looking at Book A and seeing Angels -110, looking at Pin and seeing Angels -107. Then looking at Book A in footbal and seeing Rams -7 -110, then looking at Pin Rams -7 -107. Both are the same exact thing, yet you are savinhg 3 cents with Pin.

But as mentioned, eeveryone offers this in football now. They can of course drop or add a half point, but that is much more dangerous than adding a nickle or taking a nickle away. Becuase with spred bets you can lose both sides, but with scalps you can only win one side, even though you make money no matter what it isn't going to kill them with the limits they offer.

Getting middled or sided on agame can cost abokk 10s if not hundreds of thousand. Getting scalped might cost them a hundred bux. That is a huge difference. But obviously over time it can add up, and that is why the offer nice lines both ways, because they can offer scalp sides on BOTH sides, so that in turn can actually help even out their action. But believe it when I say they look to win more than they lose.

That is all I do in the summer, scalp bases, tough racket, but profitable still. And I can say that even though Pin offers the nice numbers, they are "right" more often than not. I have not looked to see exactly, but I know that I have to send them money every so often to reload. While Iam collecting from A book here in Vegas or some other foriegn book, I am still having to pay Pin,

And even when I get greedy and scalp then in house, their loss isn't that outstanding, and probably why I have yet to get any flack for doing it.

Because even though I am winning in the grand scheme, I am "losing" at Pin. So scalping them for 60 bux isn't gong to piss them off all that fast. But it is Pin that opens up the window to win in the first place.

But that is their niche, and they embrace it I am sure. It obviously works since they are not only still in business, but they are apparently flourishing, and have become the consenus pick for best on the web.

But I would really like to know what that is based on. Their lines, their "customer service" (they have none that I know of), their pay out, their website? I mean they are pretty blannd in my opinion. As far as pay outs go, I have hit them pretty big on a few future plays the past couple season, and had no problem. BUT I have also sent some pretty major deposits out there to cover the scalp losses. So more or less it is a trade off in that aspect. I think i might be ahead of them a couple grand since I started there. I know I am down for the year so far according to their, and that again includes the Pats SB Win, and Det at some nice numbers.

So I can only ascertain that they are making their money from guys betting bases and losing there.

I know this may have gone a little off topic, but it is all realted for sure.

Very informative posts.

It is scary knowing that a VERY high % of the books we use could not pay out every players account balance right this minute.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by THE SHRINK:
drunkguy,

They are brand new with no experience or credibility. I don't know any of them, and they have proven their inexperience with derogatory comments to The General. Now if they want to call me and behave as a professional insitution should, I will talk to them...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

agree with the lack of experience and reputation. However they do have a number of decent books working with them ("stand-up"-type books, you might say) and as there is really no charge or risk to try them, I have gone ahead and done so.

As far as whatever happened to General, I cannot comment on, but I do hope they resolved it off the board