Any help with this problem?

DrChen · Jan 10, 2005

I've made 5 deposits via Firepay the last week. I made a deposit of $1000 each time (1 on the 3rd, 2 on the 4th, and 2 on the 5th). According to my bank records today, only the ones on the 3rd and 4th cleared while the 2 on the 5th did not. Apparently, a check that I deposited to cover all funds was not made available immediately by my bank so it is likely that the 2 remaining $1000 withdrawals will be returned as insufficient funds. The money is there at this moment, but I am now worried that Firepay will return the message to VIP Sports that my last 2 deposits failed.

According to VIP sports website,

"Please note, if your deposit is returned as Insufficient Funds for any reason whatsoever all winnings derived from those funds will be confiscated in full ."

Now with the deposits that I made, I lost the first $4000 I deposited, but turned the last $1000 into ~$24,000. I realized the error in the firepay deposits not clearing just today when I checked my bank account, so I am totally freaking that I might not get any of that money back.

Does that mean I will lose all of that money that I won? I didn't do a "chargeback," and I am totally pissed at my bank. What do do!?!

wilheim · Jan 10, 2005

I would be at the bank when they open in the morning first thing, and do what I could to make sure the checks do not bounce. Bring money, talk to a manager it might not be to late.

wil.

DrChen · Jan 10, 2005

The money is available at this moment.

However, since the deposit via Firepay was made on the 5th, it is usually takes 2 days to process (e.g. the ones on the 4th were processed by my bank on the 6th). According to my bank records, there were no charges on the 6th or 7th so the checks have likely bounced.

The thing is, I contacted the bank and Firepay and both have not indicated any bounced transactions. The bank however confirms that there are no charges of $1003.99 pending (implying that the transactions will not go through).

I just talked to VIP and they said that they will suspend my account if they receive an "insufficient funds" notice from Firepay and once they collect funds, they will re-open the account. They told me to call in and tell accounting in the morning about my situation. The reason I'm so worried is because of the strong wording of how they deal with "insufficient funds" from their website....it implies they can do whatever they want. With a large balance on my account, I am worried they will just forfeit all of those winnings.

DrChen · Jan 10, 2005

*Update*

I talked to the manager today and he ended up telling me that I will be losing all of the money that I won that day because technically I was betting with credit and VIP does not allow credit players. I am completely sick to my stomach that my bank cost me over $24,000. The deposit should have been cleared by the time Firepay made the charge, but it wasn't. In the end, I will end up with only $1000 in my account (after Firepay retries and gets the money) since I technically didn't ever lose that 2nd deposits money.

I know that technically it is my fault, but I was hoping for some understanding from these guys. I already put in about $10,000 the last week so I've had several Firepay transactions that have cleared and been fine. I hoped to get the manager at VIP sports to understand what was going on, but he was pretty stern and completely not understanding.

So there goes $24,000 that I made from $1000, it was going to be a way to pay off the bills, but now I have nothing again. I am so sick to my stomach it is unbelievable.

TANG · Jan 10, 2005

That Sucks Big Time I Do Not Know What To Say That Is A Horrible Thing That Happened To You. Not Nice For The Guy At Vip To Not Show You Any Sympathy.

This Is A Very Big Example Of A Bad Beat. I Would Talk To The Moderators Here And See If They Could Do Anything For You.

TANG · Jan 10, 2005

Also Vip Should Make Players Wait Till Funds Have Cleared Before Letting Them Play So This Kind Of Stuff Does Not Happen.

Slash · Jan 10, 2005

That sucks Chen.... but it sucks even more that TANG just has to use capital letters at the beginning of every word.

Noreaga+ · Jan 10, 2005

if you have a good history (more than just this past weekend) with firepay transactions VIP should let it slide, just my opinion.

but I think VIP will jump at the opp. of not paying you 24,000$ they only like small bettors

TANG · Jan 10, 2005

Slash I Do Not Know Why It Shows Cap Letters For Every Word. I Must Have Hit Some Function That Does This I Am Typing This With Caps Lock On. It Should Be The Worst Thing I Do.

Noreaga+ · Jan 10, 2005

why dont you turn caps OFF

TANG · Jan 10, 2005

there they are off

TANG · Jan 10, 2005

ok explain to me why when i had it on that only the first letter off each word was capitalized and not the whole word.

Noreaga+ · Jan 10, 2005

i think its a RX function, I have noticed in the past when I tried capitalizing the entire word only the first letter would show capitalized... not all the time though

DrChen · Jan 10, 2005

I've had this happen before with Betwwts and Sportsbook.com before and with both books, they let me keep my winnings once they collected the original monies. I gamble such a high volume of money that when I go on a losing streak, sometimes the money is delayed in getting transferred to my banking account which is why this happens.

In the end, I should have gone with a book that was more concerned with customer service (like betwwts) than to be concerned with not wanting to pay a $24,000 balance. When I posed this situation to Betwwts hypothetically, they said that they would try to recollect the monies and if they collected, they would let me keep the winnings (I called betwwts late last night since VIP accounting department was closed). I was really hoping this morning that what VIP would do would mirror that of Betwwts, but unfortunately, VIP cares more about that money than keepiing a player. Dammit.

TANG · Jan 10, 2005

well i won't play at vip after reading this.

DrChen · Jan 10, 2005

Me either. I have lost lots of money this year to Betwwts and Sportsbook.com and I don't feel bad about it at all - they have treated me very well. The manager at VIP could care less if I continued to gamble there since I was winning. The manager at VIP at the end of the call suggested that if I had proof of the monies in my account during the time of the Firepay deposit that maybe they could do something. However, when I told him that I had proof, he suddenly became very quiet and then said, "well, we'll wait and see what happens."

Why even bother to offer a settlement when he wasn't going to follow through on it? Geez.

SportSavant · Jan 10, 2005

DrChen,

why dont you ask the GENERAL or THE SHRINK to see if they can help you out?

that is alot of moullah!!!!!

Doug · Jan 10, 2005

Sorry to hear this, but I doubt you get paid. Rule seems solidly defined.

DrChen · Jan 10, 2005

I sent an email, but I think that it is at the discretion of the sportsbook.

When I talked to the VIP CSR on saturday night, they said that they usually just freeze the account and after collecting they open it up again. I asked this 2 or 3 times to confirm that was what was going to happen. However, I asked the CSR this question without telling them how much I had won. Apparently, it does make a difference. When I talked to the manager today, he didn't hesitate that he did not want to give me any of the winnings. He also said that what the CSR said before was incorrect and that is not what they do at VIP. I figure with the CSR so sure that they would not take away the winnings and with the manager so sure that I would not be getting the winnings, the decision is ultimately the sportsbook's. If they feel like I'm more valuable as a customer, they give me my winnings. If I am winning too much, they don't. Unfortunately, I've been winning a lot at their place lately.

bucsfan67 · Jan 10, 2005

sorry for your bad luck...

I can understand what the book is saying, not wanting people to deposit with firepay, take a shot, then not pay the deposit..

However, in that case, like someone said earlier, the book should not release the funds to be wagered with..

Seems like in this case, the book is taking the shot...

If you win, they dont pay, if u lose, well they will keep charging til they collect the charge...

U can believe had you lost, they wouldnt have said, oh your deposit didnt go through first time, so your losses "dont count", once we get the deposit cleared, you will have your 1000.00 to play with again..

yeah right