Vig of -110 vs. Reduced Vig

arty:

The gap is narrowing between shops that offer reduced vig and those that do not.

More and more shops are going to reduced vig to attract customers.

Is the "old standard -110 vig" going to be a thing of the past in the near future?

Personally, dont think so, but the more shops that continue to offer up reduced vig the better.

Personally I think it will take awhile for everyone to understand that reduced juice is the only way to wager and have a chance to beat the books.Myself I only play at Pinacle and Hollywood in my opinion these two shops are the only real reduced shops that offer the low vig every day. I know Mansion offers 105 but I want to wait a little bit longer to see if there in the game for the long haul.I probably saved about 4000.00 dollars with the reduced juice last year.I think in the final analysis the reduced shops will get all the business.

Jersey, Pinnacle doesn't always offer reduced juice, they will very often have heavier juice than your run of the mill shops. Check their overnights, if you have a sharp bet they will try to punish you with -115s -120s etc. Overall though very hard to argue with Pinny and their reduced juice..

Maybe I'm better of just laying the straight 107 at Hollywood. What do think?

Don't forget half points at -110 in hoops, that's better than -107, more like -104.

Jersey, just have to make sure you keep your eyes open thats all, and shop for the best line. Pinny plays games with the juice on sharp sides, will still have the lowest vig on a vast majority of their games but you still have to shop.

reduced vig does not affect majority of players because most do not bet enough so -110 is fine

Reduced juice versus bonuses comparison.

Assume one is a breakeven better at -110. If he were to receive a 10% bonus on the money he deposited since by definition all he does is break even his long term expectation at a book where he bets at -110 is just the bonus. In other words, if our guy were to deposit $5000 and get $500 bonus say at 5X rollover assuming he makes $100 bets he would realize the bonus ie $500 after approximately 275 bets since 275*100 is $27,500 which is 5 times the deposit plus the bonus. Looking entirely at "return on investment" once the rollover has been satisfied additional betting there does our man no good.
Let's compare that result with paying -107 juice. Again we have a $5000 deposit but no bonus. Since our guy is breakeven at -110 he hits 52.4% of his bets. So, after 275 bets at -107 he has won 144 and lost 131 bets. This amounts to a net profit of $358. Similarly, his next 275 bets will produce another $358 and so on.
Obviously, the reduced juice is worth a lot more than a cash bonus.
Of course, an "analysis" like the one above is artificial and does not consider other aspects of betting that may be important to somebody. Still, I believe it demonstrates the fact that reduced juice is worth a lot more than a cash bonus to a breakeven better.

jjgold said:

reduced vig does not affect majority of players because most do not bet enough so -110 is fine

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Coach, not a very sharp post.

A 52% capper will win at -105 and lose at -110....regardless of how much or how little they bet. It's all relative. You of all people should know that. A 410 bettor isn't gonna work his way up to $30K like you by laying unbeatable -110 vig.

Wasn't it you that said -110 vig can't be beaten?

good poast Billy

If you bet $20 or less a game reduced vig or bonuses mean nothing though

jjgold said:

good poast Billy

If you bet $20 or less a game reduced vig or bonuses mean nothing though

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So if you're now working your way up by betting $10 a game then you don't care if you lay -110 or -105? Say it ain't so, coach.

pennies D4Bets...............

I will only bet best number even if it is -110, no big deal

I rather take +4 -110 than +3.5 -107 any day and in any sport

jjgold said:

pennies D4Bets...............

I will only bet best number even if it is -110, no big deal

I rather take +4 -110 than +3.5 -107 any day and in any sport

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No disagreement there, but then again didn't you say line shopping was a waste of time? I'm very confused.

Anyway, I thought we were making the assumption that we're talking about the same spread. +4-105 is significantly better than +4-110 whether you're betting $20, $200, $2,000 or $20,000. A buck to a 20 dollar bettor with a 500 dollar bank is like 100 bucks to a 2 dime bettor with a 50K bank.

It all comes down to volume. 20 bux over a thousand bets is $20,000. -107 versus -110 is about a $254.90 difference in collections at 50%. Betting a flat 20, and not 21.40 or 22 respectively. Still losing money, but losing less.


As far as the value of the half point, of whether +3.5 at -107 is "better" than +4 at -110. It all depends on how often it happens, or is apt to happen. It is borderline at best. it also is relative to the size of a person bets and his expectation. A 20 dollar bettor is literly on going to save/make pennies. At -110 he will collect 18.18. At -107 he will collect 18.69. So 51 cents difference. So in that case getting that extra half point and sacrificing the 50 cents might be worth it.

But for guys betting a grand or more a game, and betting many many games a year, then the better vig is the better way to go in my opinion. Basically it come out to about a 2.5% probabilty for it to make sense to lay the -110. Meaning if you expect to have 3 games in 100 lined at 3.5 end in the fave winning by 4, then laying the extra vig would be worth it. I am not so sure that is the case here. I have not checked the numbers in hoops lately. But I know in football it isn't that high.

So depends on the sport and the expected probabilities I guess.

But same line better vig is a no brainer obviously.

When it does make sense is when the low vig place are offering high vig with the 'light' side, and you can find a flat -110 place offering the -110. This past week is a good example. NE was -3 +119 for awhile. They had -3 +115 for a couple days. So finding +3 -110 is a nickle scalp basically. I pointed out that Intertops had +3 -105. I think the still do actually. But from what I have heard their limits are no feasible to try to scalp with them.

These are all interesting srguments, and really show how different people look at differing aspects.