Very interesting....NORTH DAKOTA mulls online poker bill

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Cortesy of MW(clevfan)....

Internet poker bill mulled
By TOM RAFFERTY, Bismarck Tribune
Feb 2

Rep. Jim Kasper, R-Fargo, wants poker played over the Internet to be defined in the state Constitution as a game of skill rather than gambling.

"I submit to you that poker is much different than gambling," Kasper told the House Judiciary Committee Tuesday. "The skill is what you do with what you are given."

Kasper is hoping that if Internet poker is excluded from the definition of gambling, it could entice hundreds of Internet poker businesses to North Dakota, creating hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue for the state.

"This could potentially match the whole revenue stream that the state has now," Kasper said.

His proposal is contained in House Bill 1509.

Internet poker companies currently locate in other countries because they fear a 1961 federal law that prohibits gambling over the wire.

Kasper wants to allow operations of the sites in North Dakota and fight the federal government in court if the federal officials block state law.

Some committee members were skeptical if North Dakota could win a case against the federal government, while others were wary of changing the definition of gambling.

"It's hard for me to look at this bill and say this isn't really gambling," Rep. Lois Delmore, D-Grand Forks, said.

Rep. Lawrence Klemin, R-Bismarck, said that if the bill passes, the state could have to pay for costly legal fees if the federal government challenges it.

Rep. Mark Dosch, R-Bismarck, supported the bill, saying that North Dakota needs to take a chance.

"I believe that for the people of North Dakota and for the state, we need to be strong and take on this challenge and not be afraid to step out of the box," Dosch said.

Former Gov. Art Link, a longtime opponent of gambling, testified against the bill. Link said that since the state allowed charitable gambling years ago, other forms of gambling have grown.

"I made the statement then that gambling has an insatiable appetite that can never be satisfied," Link said.

Kasper said the bill does not expand gambling because people can already legally play poker in casinos and on the Internet.

Kasper said the bill could bring up to $500 million of new revenue to the state because the profits would be taxed and each player would pay a $10 annual registration fee.

Kasper said Internet poker companies want to be regulated because their customers would have more trust that the games are not rigged.

The bill is accompanied by a resolution that would require a vote of the people in 2006 asking them to change the definition of gambling in the North Dakota Constitution.

Under his plan, Kasper would use 60 percent of the poker revenue for property tax relief, 20 percent for public education and 20 percent for the state's general fund.

Link said the state should not rely on gambling for revenue.

"Are we so bankrupt in North Dakota that we have to depend on the whims of people who wish to play gambling games?" Link said.

The committee didn't immediately take action on the bill.
 

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NOW I ASK YOU, HOW IS SUCCESSFUL SPORTS GAMBLING NOT CONSIDERED A SKILL?


THANK YOU!

---FISH---
 

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Fishhead said:
NOW I ASK YOU, HOW IS SUCCESSFUL SPORTS GAMBLING NOT CONSIDERED A SKILL?


THANK YOU!

---FISH---

So is rolling a good joint but I don't see either one being legal anytime soon unfortunately.

Should be able to get some land cheap in North Dakota. Get a fat pipe for internet access and your are all set up.

When do we start Fish?
 
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WOWWOW good stuff.. A spark for regulation again in another state but im sure some yahoo do right IDIOT will snuff it out
mad.gif
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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Isn't ND a state along with indiana which imposes criminal penalty for internet gambling?
 

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They got the only conviction ever against an online PLAYER. I would be extremely cautious about this. To answer your question Fish most games could be considered skillful as the amount you lose is determined by your ability outside of slots and baccarat. Even craps could be said to depend on one's ability to throw dice. Not that the argument holds much water, but I am afraid no politician wants to go there so they will keep the scope limited.

I am finishing up an article in a somewhat related idea Fish, should be going up in the next couple days. Very interesting implications for the battle to legalize sports betting.
 

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You know N Dakota is dying for revenue by this move. They have what 500,000 people in the whole state? How many Indian Casinos are in ND? I'd have to think that the Indians are behind this push to make it illegal.
 
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What would make a Poker site move to anywhere in the US? Even if it would be made legal, why would you want the extra expenses (taxes, employess) of being located in the US? Does anyone have a good idea? The only one might be to help legitimize it in some peoples eyes.
 

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They are talking of moving to the Isle of Man, a place with higher wages today thanks to the power of the Euro and Pound. Cost of a software based enterprise is negligible, it is the books with the phone clerks where savings are to be had. Staff at higher levels get paid only slightly less offshore and it is offset by higher communications, tech equipment and banking costs.
 

Oh boy!
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North Dakota was one of the first states outside of Nevada or New Jersey to legalize Blackjack in the mid-80's. Perhaps if they can get Internet gambling rolling there other states will follow along wanting the revenue.
 

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I do not see why ND cannot do this. They should leverage the law in CA where poker is already legal and defined as a game of skill. Just extend that law to online poker and they are in business. It is easier said than done but it is a start.
 

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What would make a Poker site move to anywhere in the US? Even if it would be made legal, why would you want the extra expenses (taxes, employess) of being located in the US? Does anyone have a good idea? The only one might be to help legitimize it in some peoples eyes


Can you imagine the credibility that site would instantly gain. People would flock to it. Regulation would be worth billions.
 

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I don't see it happening without a change in Federal law. With something like that the Feds control things one way or another when it starts to cross state lines. Saw a good program on Frontline the other night on credit card companies. Many moved to South Dakota because they had a law on the books that said you could charge variable rates of interest on loans. The Feds in some court cases said they could extend these rates to credit card holders all over the country as long as the company was HQ'ed in a state that allowed variable rates (Delaware soon followed, if you ever notice, your credit card is probably from a bank in one of these states)
For online poker you would need ND to make the law, then somehow successfully challenge the Feds and get a favorable court ruling or for Congress to amend the Wire Wager Act or whatever it is. It would be nice to get "clean" payouts without having to worry about the FBI knocking on your door sometime though.
 

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It wouldn't be that hard because poker is legal in so many states right now. States could make laws stating it is illegal for their customers to play poker and then an ND site couldn't take their action. This is an offshoot of the ruling that closed a potential disaster not long ago. The rules for simulcasting and wagering on horse races from out of state was very vague. In the minds of a few conservatives who despised gambling, it was an illegal activity. They started to make a little noise about it, but the DOJ basically said it wasn't going to order enforcement because it was a bet from one state to another where both states allowed horse race wagering. I can't remember the year, but one of the times Kyl was trying to get his bill through, they actually did get Congress to approve interstate wagering specifically. I think courts would rule the same way, in light of the 40 states or so that allow or don't prohibit horse race wagering and mingle bets between the legal states.
 

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WildBill said:
They got the only conviction ever against an online PLAYER. I would be extremely cautious about this. To answer your question Fish most games could be considered skillful as the amount you lose is determined by your ability outside of slots and baccarat. Even craps could be said to depend on one's ability to throw dice. Not that the argument holds much water, but I am afraid no politician wants to go there so they will keep the scope limited.

I am finishing up an article in a somewhat related idea Fish, should be going up in the next couple days. Very interesting implications for the battle to legalize sports betting.



Who got convicted and for what? details please.
 

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