Good Poker Player VS Bad Poker Player

I've copied this post from the poker room since there is no traffic there...hopefully we can get a discussion going here. Mods feel free to remove


I'm fairly new to the game of poker and I only play Texas Hold'em. I normally play with a big group of friends and we play mini tournaments on the weekends with 10+ people.

Now I know there are good poker players and there are bad poker players, but what criteria is used when rating a player? I mean I'm fairly new, and it seems like I ALWAYS come away with the winnings...butI wouldn't consider myself a "good poker player", so how do I keep winning?

Just a question open for discussion....

1. You Have Been Very Lucky

2. You Have Been Playing With Bad Players

3. You Have Some Natural Talent For The Game

i have had a very similar experience. i do not consider myself a great player but, i almost always finish in the money. i think the reason is that most players play too many hands. they get nickeled and dimed away by playing too often, then they go all-in when they shouldn't because they're low on chips.

i think if you play conservatively against the average "home game" player, you will come out on top more times than not.

You have to know the odds of everything.

If you have a AQ, what are the chances of someone else having a pair when there are 4 other players? what if there are 8 players?

If you assume that the other person has a pair, what are the chances of you beating him pre-flop? It's about 50/50 - but then what if the flop is 5-J-9 ? what the chances of you beating a pair?

You can basically make index cards with those odds and study them - or if you're online, you can also have them on your desk, so that is the easy part.

The TOUGH part is understanding how a player plays. Does he try to ride winning streaks? Does he try to slow play? People have different tendencies that takes HUNDREDS of hands to figure out.

The bottom line is that if you want to have fun playing poker, don't ruin your evening - just play for small stakes. If you want to make money, you really shouldn't be having any fun and your head should hurt by the time you get up.

4. you read the other players by some instinct even if you cant put your finger on it that when you are beat and you save lots of money that way.

5. you are confusing to play against when others try to figure you out, unintentionally perhaps, but like in game theory you make some tough choices randomly so you can not be read.

7. You are not up as much as you think you are (almost everyone thinks they are a long term winner, do you have records? keep records on this stuff)

This might be overly simplistic, but let's call it the thin line between good and bad. While there are a number of winning styles and approaches out there, the one thing every winning player I know of understands, applies correctly, and is always aware of is the role of position. The players that think of their position and stay disciplined in their application of position are generally far ahead of those that do not. Rare to find a winning regular that doesn't understand the importance of position well.

trytrytry said:

7. You are not up as much as you think you are (almost everyone thinks they are a long term winner, do you have records? keep records on this stuff)

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I usually just play small buy in's usually with $20. I've been keeping track on checkyourbets.com Here's my chart

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 901px; HEIGHT: 179px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=901 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#000044><TH>Session Ended</TH><TH>Location</TH><TH>Game</TH><TH>Win/Loss</TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#333377><TD noWrap align=left>2005-02-20 8:54pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.25-0.50NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 160.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#000044><TD noWrap align=left>2005-02-20 8:53pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Party Poker</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.25-0.50NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ -50.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#333377><TD noWrap align=left>2005-02-13 6:40pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.25-0.50NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 45.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#000044><TD noWrap align=left>2005-02-13 6:39pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.25-0.50NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 25.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#333377><TD noWrap align=left>2002-02-15 11:08pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.25-0.50NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 3.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#000044><TD noWrap align=left>2001-02-09 4:19pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.10-0.25NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ -5.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#333377><TD noWrap align=left>2001-02-09 4:18pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.10-0.25NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 30.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#000044><TD noWrap align=left>2001-02-09 4:18pm</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Friends</TD><TD noWrap align=left>Short $0.10-0.25NL</TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 40.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD></TR><TR class=chart bgColor=#333377><TD noWrap align=left>Totals:</TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD><TD noWrap align=left></TD><TD noWrap align=right>$ 248.00</TD><TD noWrap align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


So as you can see I've only played 8 times and I'm up $248.

blue edwards said:

i have had a very similar experience. i do not consider myself a great player but, i almost always finish in the money. i think the reason is that most players play too many hands. they get nickeled and dimed away by playing too often, then they go all-in when they shouldn't because they're low on chips.

i think if you play conservatively against the average "home game" player, you will come out on top more times than not.

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I know it's hard to generalize but how many hands is too much? I mean I am usually in the action, unless I have unsuited low cards. Is this too much?


I found www.pokertips.org to be a good site of useful information for anyone who is interested.

You have been LUCKY getting good cards AND you are a tight player...good luck and keep it up

Tight aggressive players usually do better

What makes me a tight player?

not sure what makes them most start automatically like that IMO ...a tight player is one that plays very good cards like only pocket pairs 88 or above or AK AQ ...most poker players start out tight ...

I see...yeah I would say I'm pretty tight though. Do you think it would be more profitable to loosen up a bit more?

GoFlamesGo! said:

I see...yeah I would say I'm pretty tight though. Do you think it would be more profitable to loosen up a bit more?

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Flame...there are a ton of GREAT poker players on this site...Blackbart, Swami and Tekari but in my opinion you should change your play a bit at times like play some cards you normally would not play like 67 or 89 or make KJ ..change gears once in awhile....RAISE on a marginal hand so if you win you can show people that your not just a pocket rocket Player


and make sure you attend the RX bash 05 this year in vegas and there free poker tourney that they always have

The biggest thing between a good player and bad is being able to let go of a hand. To many people once they get chips in the pot cannot release a hand. Just my observation.

Dante said:

Flame...there are a ton of GREAT poker players on this site...Blackbart, Swami and Tekari but in my opinion you should change your play a bit at times like play some cards you normally would not play like 67 or 89 or make KJ ..change gears once in awhile....RAISE on a marginal hand so if you win you can show people that your not just a pocket rocket Player


and make sure you attend the RX bash 05 this year in vegas and there free poker tourney that they always have

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Thanks for the advice Dante!

I'd love to come to the bash.....but I'm up in Canada! I'm actually looking to go to vegas the first week in Sept for my first time. Can't wait!

Poker is about runs also.......I do not change the style of play and last night on Paradise I turned 200 into 3700 in 6 hours......Today I turned 450 into 20. You have to be dedicated and not go on tilt when losing and not be greedy when winning. IMO anyways.

GoFlamesGo! said:

So as you can see I've only played 8 times and I'm up $248.

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8. Your results are not meaningful statistically. While it certainly is good to be ahead and your records seem outstanding it takes about 200 hours of playing in the same game to get a handle of how much you are making. If you can do it you should convert the data to win per hour for each session and then determine your mean and standard deviation. BTW congratulations on keeping records, many players don't.

9. Fish mentioned this but basically you play better than most (or maybe all) the others at the table.

What most people don't grasp is that the difference between tourney play and a cash game is that you play a "patience" game (or atleast I do)..and for cash games(for me) I put my ballz on the table....But the point being they are two different beastes... I see alot of people come to play a cash game and use a tourney strategy and either get mowed over or make a small amount over a long time...

Woody0 said:

8. Your results are not meaningful statistically. While it certainly is good to be ahead and your records seem outstanding it takes about 200 hours of playing in the same game to get a handle of how much you are making. If you can do it you should convert the data to win per hour for each session and then determine your mean and standard deviation. BTW congratulations on keeping records, many players don't.

9. Fish mentioned this but basically you play better than most (or maybe all) the others at the table.

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I agree, I don't have enough playing time to make a meaningful judgement but maybe it is the fact that the others at my table aren't as good. They are my good friends so I know who bluffs and who doesn't...so that helps. I'm going to try my luck at the casino and see how that goes.

#1cheater# said:

What most people don't grasp is that the difference between tourney play and a cash game is that you play a "patience" game (or atleast I do)..and for cash games(for me) I put my ballz on the table....But the point being they are two different beastes... I see alot of people come to play a cash game and use a tourney strategy and either get mowed over or make a small amount over a long time...

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Very true!

Been playing holdem for over 15 years and am a lifetime loser in cash games, but a lifetime winner in no limit tourney games.

---FISH---