List all books that "Delay Approval of Bets"

BAUS · Mar 15, 2005

This has been discussed in the "WSEX Issue" thread below...

Please list all books that you suspect of utilizing the "delaying" or "queue" method of accepting bets, in order to move the line against the player.

This is typically when you input your password and click "submit" and the screen just seems to crawl, and crawl, and crawl......until the bet is either accepted or declined...

I will begin the list:

Sportingbet.com
BetRoyal.com
Skybook.com
BetCris.com
BetDSI.com
Youwager.com

I'm sure there are many more that practice this method of cheating. Let's find out who they all are.

BAUS

JohnBuzz · Mar 15, 2005

Hopefully someone will correct me but from what I remember, this delay feature was part of the major release by ASI Software that came out last summer. Obviously this feature was already in use in some shape with non ASI customers like a few you mentioned plus a bunch you didn't.

The list would be shorter of books that don't have this feature like I know VIP does not but will with the next major upgrade this summer.

There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. The books have to be forced to use restraint. Its much more fair to lower a guys limits and let him have a fair crack at a line than to make him commit(remember he enters the bet!) and then have the bookie decide if he wants to take the bet.

Halifax · Mar 15, 2005

Add:

Rio
International Islands
BetJamaica
V-Wager
Players SuperBook
Virtual Bookmaker
Beverly Hills Bookie
MVP SportsBook
BetVSI

It's never happened to me personally at CRIS, DSI, or FirstFidelity (YouWager.com), but I don't doubt that it happens to others.

Slash · Mar 15, 2005

CRIS and DSI doesn't do it...

THE SHRINK · Mar 15, 2005

I would like to hear from some of the sports books who engage in this DEPLORABLE practice. I have found that there are TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY, & THEN THERE'S THE TRUTH...

Could some of you be so kind as to shoot me an email (AW222@aol.com) or give me a phone call at your convenience. I really would like to try and understand your thinking without speculating...

John's post pretty much sums up how I feel IF THIS IS INDEED what is happening....

If you BOOK a BET, THEN YOU HONOR THE BET, PERIOD.

However, the process begins when you GIVE OUT THE LINE. That's the REASON gamblers lay 1.10 to win 1.00, so that WE have the choice and not YOU...

Perhaps, offering plus 1.10, rather than minus 1.10 to those gamblers that get screwed by this practice would be the FAIR remedy since the choice is not ours anymore, but yours!!!!

THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK · Mar 15, 2005

As I stated earlier, there are TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY, & THEN THERE'S THE TRUTH...

I just received a telephone call from WSEX'S STEVE. STEVE went into GREAT DETAIL to explain why WSEX sometimes delays a gambler's bet. I will do my best to summarize his position, but if some of you still have any questions regarding their practice, STEVE promised that he would be available by phone or on this thread to answer them.

What many of you may not realize is the number of gamblers who sit in front of the DON BEST screen, waiting to strike a sports book based on NEW INFORMATION they receive that will undoubtedly CHANGE the line on a game...

For example, if the MIAMI HEAT were favored by 5 over the Lakers, and an announcement comes out the SHAQUILLE O'NEAL isn't going to be playing, then obviously a downward adjustment of that line is warrented.

However, there will always be gamblers who immediately try and beat any sports book they can by betting against MIAMI before the sports book is able to adjust its new line. I personally find nothing at all wrong for a sports book to change its line under these conditions and to thereby STALL the gambler who is trying to beat them in this fashion...

Also, although WSEX is considered a "SQUARE" shop, they still have a number of wiseguys and movers that they allow to bet, but with REDUCED limits. I call this good bookmaking and an important step to take to prevent some bookmakers from going out of business...

Now these players, and I speak from experience here too, are quite familiar with the stalling drill and they hardly complain.

When a line moves from 5 to 7, WSEX is willing to take one or two HITS, but why on earth would they allow 20 beards, movers, and wiseguys to bet them at the old line? This is another sure-fire way for a sports book to go belly up...

To conclude, the examples I listed above are the ONLY times that WSEX will stall on the line that a gambler gets when trying to place a bet. Rather than intentionally trying to screw gamblers, WSEX is only attemting to protect the integrity of its book by not allowing themselves to be taken advantage of.

The majority of players NEVER complain of any line moving during the betting process, and in the cases they explained to me quite eloquently, I call this GOOD BOOKMAKING, rather than CHEATING...

THE SHRINK

Concorde · Mar 15, 2005

Slash said:
CRIS and DSI doesn't do it...

That's true.

DarrylParsons · Mar 15, 2005

I have never experienced problems at WSEX or Skybook/IIS and I have placed thousands of bets at each. Both top notch operations IMO and I'm glad they take measures against steam players and beards because those practices are unethical IMO. If you make your living following steam, you have to think "maggot" when you look in the mirror...and if you're a beard you're just an accomplice to exceed limits (ie. break the rules) for some greedy motherfvcker you're subconsciously in love with. Both animals are lowlife scum that the world can do without IMO.

CHOPTALK · Mar 15, 2005

Hollywood for big bets.

Muddy · Mar 15, 2005

Add cascade to the list. It usually takes 3+ minutes for it to approve or disapprove the wager. 90% of the time it doesnt approve it.

JohnBuzz · Mar 15, 2005

I would like to hear from some of the sports books who engage in this DEPLORABLE practice.

I don't think we are at the "DEPLORABLE" stage. And watch these threads and so far only Arbs and Movers are involved. Not that they are 2nd class citizens, don't get me wrong. However the fear here is that this net will eventually catch players down the food chain. A shot needs to be fired accross the bow NOW so this control feature is not abused.

lakerfan · Mar 15, 2005

Darryl Parsons said:
I have never experienced problems at WSEX or Skybook/IIS and I have placed thousands of bets at each. Both top notch operations IMO and I'm glad they take measures against steam players and beards because those practices are unethical IMO. If you make your living following steam, you have to think "maggot" when you look in the mirror...and if you're a beard you're just an accomplice to exceed limits (ie. break the rules) for some greedy motherfvcker you're subconsciously in love with. Both animals are lowlife scum that the world can do without IMO.

I am on approval at Skybook and I don't think I have ever played any real steam with them as they are too quick to move. But, I personally feel that Cascade, Skybook, and WSEX use the approval in the most fair manner. If the lines aren't moving, they will allow almost any bet through. Skybook being slightly better than WSEX. But they are all way better about allowing bets than some shop. Bet Jamaica will just **** you over on a number a half point off in the middle of the night.

THE SHRINK · Mar 15, 2005

John,

Consider that shot fired...

THE SHRINK

TheGeneral+ · Mar 15, 2005

If the feature is in place to ensure that the business is looking out for the buisness, then that is good. Books have to try and stay open I believe. There can be abuse and I suspect there already has been and will be in the future. Not much the player can do. You can only move on if unhappy.

THE SHRINK · Mar 15, 2005

Well said General.

If only some of you guys really KNEW how many SCAMMERS/JOKERS there are that make it bad for all of us, especially the sports books..

Ken

Woody0 · Mar 15, 2005

THE SHRINK said:
However, there will always be gamblers who immediately try and beat any sports book they can by betting against MIAMI before the sports book is able to adjust its new line. I personally find nothing at all wrong for a sports book to change its line under these conditions and to thereby STALL the gambler who is trying to beat them in this fashion...

I disagree. I think the sportsbook should deal with this type of player by reducing their online limit and asking them to phone in for larger bets.

Let me tell you about a European book (that I will not name) that are often extremely slow to move their lines on N. American sports. You place a bet against their stale line and then wait. Then your bet is not accepted and used as the basis for moving their line. So only one side of the bet will be accepted and the line moves if the other side is bet. Is this ethical? Maybe I should just stop trying to bet stale lines, or maybe this is where the delay leads in the long run, classic bait and switch.

D2bets is correct; offer + acceptance = contract. The players who are continually beating the book to a line move should have their limits reduced which is sufficient protection for the book.

PanchoSanza · Mar 15, 2005

Hollywood, Cascade, Betjamaica

Rainbow · Mar 15, 2005

Alot of books let you bet the limit on the Internet. let me ask you something if you owned a book would you let them consistenly double and triple hit you, if you say you would you are lying. BW will usually bet off the screen first, and some of the books go out the door with his bet, and the problem is they try to beat him in when he calls to bet on the screen. and also so many screen watchers when they see a line move they ready to play, the problem is they have alot of screen watchers. I gurantee you every book in the industry will give the play to a good customer, if he is a screen watcher they wont give it too him, which I dont blame. a screen watcher is not somebody I would feel guilty for turning down his wager. he"s no customer anyway.

marc · Mar 15, 2005

If a book needs to rely on software that delays bet confirmation, that the book is admitting that they have a combination of poor linemaking ability and porr risk management. Your online limits for all cusotmers should be based on the ability of your linemen to properly update the lines. If you have a staff sleeping at the wheel, then don't offer internet limits of 1k - 3k. The smartest thing to do, would simply be to have your lines automatically move on action. So you just program your lines to move 5 cents or half a point for every 2k in action or so, depending on your risk tolerance. That way you don't have to worry about being run over. The software that royal and jamaica use is very disconcerting for the cusotmer. The screen goes blank. And a minute later the confirm pops up. The first few times I tried placing a wager, I thought their computers were down, and closed the window (whihc appenrtly automatically cancels the wager) and placed my wager elsewhere. but i have one frined who played at betjm and had the experience of waiting a minute and seeing some type of error messga. Thought the wager didn't go through, and quickly placed the bet elsewhere, since the game was about to begin. Turned out the wager did go through, and his team lost, so he lost double what he meant to risk.

Rainbow · Mar 15, 2005

I gurantee you if you call in your wager and if you a limit player they will hold the game, while you betting the game someone else calls for the same game the clerk will say I"m sorry sir but that game is on hold, but you are welcome to hold if you like. if you wager on the internet the clerk cant hold the game, but they can stop from being double or triple hit by not authorizing the 2nd and 3rd bet. I know its hard to understand, but it all makes good sense to me. if you ever think different about it, try wearing their shoes. if you owned the business would you try to prevent double and triple hit.