How does a "fixed" game go down IYO's

Kruser6 · Apr 8, 2005

If there are so many fixed games as mentioned in these threads then why has nobody been caught since the Arizona St. Ordeal?

I mean you would have to pay the players like 10-15 g's wouldnt you, how could a player keep quiet enough with that much extra money?

Dont the casinos take notice of substantial amounts of money coming in on one team?

I have just heard so much of this especially towards the end of the season, it is just suprising to me how none of them get caught. Especially with people coming on here calling the games out!!

cincy_ · Apr 8, 2005

Kruser6 said:
If there are so many fixed games as mentioned in these threads then why has nobody been caught since the Arizona St. Ordeal?

I mean you would have to pay the players like 10-15 g's wouldnt you, how could a player keep quiet enough with that much extra money?

Dont the casinos take notice of substantial amounts of money coming in on one team?

I have just heard so much of this especially towards the end of the season, it is just suprising to me how none of them get caught. Especially with people coming on here calling the games out!!

If I am a college basketball ref and want to "fix" a game, I could easily do it without getting caught.

EASILY.

You take the over on every game and call ticky-tack fouls. The over is guaranteed.

Since you can't do this forever, you read the touts' newletters, and once you see that they are all playing the overs when you're reffing, you take the under with the inflated number. Ref the game regularly or "let 'em play". Either way, the under is guaranteed.

If I am a coach, I make sure the kids LOOK AHEAD whenever we have a look-ahead game. If they're playing a team like St. Bonaventure, you spend that week working on fundamentals instead of scouting reports. College kids will have a tough time guarding people when they don't know who is left handed, who is the outside shooter, who is the slasher and who is a bad free throw shooter

Also, if you are the dog of 15 points, you can keep fouling until you're within 14

Like Richkas would say,

$$$$$$MONEY$$$$$$

5teamparlay · Apr 8, 2005

Things aren't fixed as much as they can be scripted for TV sometimes and you just got to figure out what the script should be.

Is scripting fixing?

RPM · Apr 8, 2005

its a darwinian process. they get smarter and learn to keep their mouths shut. those college kids are easy targets for fixes. 10g's just to make sure they dont cover a spread? i find it hard to believe very many would turn that down...

winkyduck · Apr 8, 2005

cincy_hugg said:
If I am a college basketball ref and want to "fix" a game, I could easily do it without getting caught.

EASILY.

i don't know about "easily" but i might say easier than anyone else on the court. the only thing i would say is in games where they use 3-man mechanics (college and nba) you basically have to get ALL 3 in on it because of the rotation of the refs after calling a foul and what area each of the refs is responisble for. i could be "on the take" but it wouldn't work as well as if the other 2 were involved for if i started calling stuff outside "my area" all the time come halftime when the other 2 refs starting chewing my ass out i would have to straighten out - or it woul dbe really obvious and while refs are like cops - in a sense - that while cops have "the thin blue line" refs have something similar because when i am on the court i know the ONLY "friends" i have in the entire building who will watch my back are my partners and if i "F" them over they will "F" me back - and after the game - it will be fairly obvious what i did and it will be reported back to my assignor as well as the league i am reffing and there will be A LOT of questions fired my way - most of which i can't (or won't) answer. if i am not suspended i will be watched LIKE A HAWK the next few games and if they still see this "funny business" going on - i am DONE and as hard as i worked to get to where i am - it's just not worth it.

Illini · Apr 8, 2005

Winky- thanks for your insights, bro. I umpired baseball for many years, and made it to Div 1, doing non-conference games. I have never reffed a basketball game, and really have never had a desire to. But I know what you mean- officiating is a fraternity, and nobody knows what it's like unless they've been in the fraternity. I can tell by your desire that you will make Div 1, if you don't burn out first. You know your shitt, that's for sure. I basically wanted it so bad, and then got there. I burned out and quit before getting into a conference...it just wasn't all I had hoped to be, and I just didn't want to do it anymore. I look forward to shooting the shitt with you at the bash, and sharing war stories.

winkyduck · Apr 8, 2005

Illini said:
Winky- thanks for your insights, bro. I umpired baseball for many years, and made it to Div 1, doing non-conference games. I have never reffed a basketball game, and really have never had a desire to. But I know what you mean- officiating is a fraternity, and nobody knows what it's like unless they've been in the fraternity. I can tell by your desire that you will make Div 1, if you don't burn out first. You know your shitt, that's for sure. I basically wanted it so bad, and then got there. I burned out and quit before getting into a conference...it just wasn't all I had hoped to be, and I just didn't want to do it anymore. I look forward to shooting the shitt with you at the bash, and sharing war stories.

real quick - there is this ONE coach that when i see am i doing his game i immediately know i am in for a LONG game. i know he will complaint about anything and everything - and i wouldn't mind it if he was right every now and then - but he is ALWAYS wrong. in the kids' league i do (5ht/6th graders) teams must play man defense the 1st 2 periods - then can play whatever they want the next 3. they also can't play full court defense until the 5th (8 minute) period. so i am reffing his game and in the 4th period the other team basically has 3 guys surrounding his bug man. he is screaming it is "illegal defense" but we tell him it is not for they can play whatever they want. then come the start of the 5th period the other team plays full court defense - and this coach screams they can only do it the last 2 minutes of the game (which is the way it is the newt lowest level down) to which we tell him the other team is not doing anything illegal. we usually "T" the guy up about every 2-4 games because of the way he acts so when my partner and i see he is coaching the game - we shake our heads and know we are in for a long and forgetable game.

winbet · Apr 8, 2005

The longer your in this game, the more you will see ridiculous things happen, sports has that uncertainty. Human error, rash judgement calls and sometimes just bad play bring a torrent of abuse from gamblers, always the losers, crying fix.

We gamblers are a funny species, as on this site, we love talking to fellow gamblers, the only other people who will listen to our illogical reasoning, but talk to a non-gambling friend who has seen the same game and its chalk and cheese.

That is not to say fixing doesnt happen, but no way in the same way as Years ago. Sport, not so long ago had little monetary gain for the players so fixing was more widespread, but today is different. I have been part of fixes in the past and simply put, there was no downside for anyone, nowadays there is so much registered data, tracking methods and big downsides for all if caught that its hardly worth the effort.

One thing that never seems to arise when posters talk of fixing is getting the hard earned down. Even in the old days this was the toughest job, usually trudging around from shop to shop in co-ordinated fashion, having the maximum available without going over the notification limits. Once that was done, commission agents would start their ploy of getting as much on before the price collapsed. This was followed by the individual Telephone Accounts set up, to get the minimum stake at the opening odds.

It is doubtful, considering the logistics, that a fix would work nowadays as its so uncertain of getting the money down. Fixes have been done lately, but you have to wonder for how much given the Sport and liquidity of market. Oddly, any fixes I was involved with was judged by its anonymity, you never was given a second chance if you messed up.

Illini · Apr 8, 2005

winkyduck said:
real quick - there is this ONE coach that when i see am i doing his game i immediately know i am in for a LONG game. i know he will complaint about anything and everything - and i wouldn't mind it if he was right every now and then - but he is ALWAYS wrong. in the kids' league i do (5ht/6th graders) teams must play man defense the 1st 2 periods - then can play whatever they want the next 3. they also can't play full court defense until the 5th (8 minute) period. so i am reffing his game and in the 4th period the other team basically has 3 guys surrounding his bug man. he is screaming it is "illegal defense" but we tell him it is not for they can play whatever they want. then come the start of the 5th period the other team plays full court defense - and this coach screams they can only do it the last 2 minutes of the game (which is the way it is the newt lowest level down) to which we tell him the other team is not doing anything illegal. we usually "T" the guy up about every 2-4 games because of the way he acts so when my partner and i see he is coaching the game - we shake our heads and know we are in for a long and forgetable game.

Basketball and baseball are very different. With basketball, you get so much whining on every play. Every freaking call is disputed by everyone. All that constant minor chirping would drive me crazy. Cause most of it is just begging. But once you hear enough, you t them up and they shut up. You have a lot of power in basketball, even though you have to use it sparingly. With baseball, you don't hear shitt most of the time, but when something bad happens, you have a big mess to clean up. You can't throw a flag or call a technical, you can either listen to it, or toss them. And the one power that you have to toss them, it is gone once you do. Cause they will get their money's worth, once they have been ejected, and have nothing to lose. I heard things like "fucken gutless, fucken heartless, fucken chickenshit, fucken spineless," one time after an ejection. Things that would make the person crazy for saying them, if he were not a Div 1 baseball coach. You have to have thick skin, and bite your tongue, because you want to say the same stuff back, but can't. You just can't take it personal, cause the next day you come back for the 2nd game of the series, and they act like nothing happened.

TheGeneral+ · Apr 8, 2005

I believe many NBA games are determined by officials. Not the winner or loser, but the outcome ATS.

I feel very strongly about this. I cannot prove anything, but I have an opinion.

winbet · Apr 8, 2005

General, I always respect your opinions, what I am saying is, We, as gamblers have an outlook that non-gambling people dont have. Again, when I talk to non-gambling people about a game we have both seen, views differ depending on my betting angle.

cincy_ · Apr 8, 2005

winbet said:
The longer your in this game, the more you will see ridiculous things happen, sports has that uncertainty. Human error, rash judgement calls and sometimes just bad play bring a torrent of abuse from gamblers, always the losers, crying fix.

We gamblers are a funny species, as on this site, we love talking to fellow gamblers, the only other people who will listen to our illogical reasoning, but talk to a non-gambling friend who has seen the same game and its chalk and cheese.

That is not to say fixing doesnt happen, but no way in the same way as Years ago. Sport, not so long ago had little monetary gain for the players so fixing was more widespread, but today is different. I have been part of fixes in the past and simply put, there was no downside for anyone, nowadays there is so much registered data, tracking methods and big downsides for all if caught that its hardly worth the effort.

One thing that never seems to arise when posters talk of fixing is getting the hard earned down. Even in the old days this was the toughest job, usually trudging around from shop to shop in co-ordinated fashion, having the maximum available without going over the notification limits. Once that was done, commission agents would start their ploy of getting as much on before the price collapsed. This was followed by the individual Telephone Accounts set up, to get the minimum stake at the opening odds.

It is doubtful, considering the logistics, that a fix would work nowadays as its so uncertain of getting the money down. Fixes have been done lately, but you have to wonder for how much given the Sport and liquidity of market. Oddly, any fixes I was involved with was judged by its anonymity, you never was given a second chance if you messed up.

Weren't there a few soccer refs in Germany on the fix? Come on. The players are not in on a fix, but the refs can be coerced.

... and the money is not so big for everyone. You have to remember that in college sports, the players earn NOTHING and 99% will never go pro. Out of 300 Division I teams and close to 4,000 players, 20 college players will make the NBA so if you can make a couple of grand in college, go for it.

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