Talk to me about "Pot Odds" in No Limit Holdem

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IMO vol..its if the amount you already put in and the amount of people left in the pot would give you a good return on your money IF you won


for example

you call 20 some guy goes all in for 40 another guy calls the 40...then everyone else folds...it comes back around to you and you think should you call the 20??? pot odds are not that bad as one guy is all in ....thats how I was told it works anyway


here is a link that talks about calculating it


http://wiki.ehow.com/Calculate-Pot-Odds-Quickly-in-Hold-'Em-Poker
 

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Thanks Dante

good link

Should I be figuring them on most hands or just big ones or when someone is all in?
Does it matter nl or pl
 

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volhound said:
Thanks Dante

good link

Should I be figuring them on most hands or just big ones or when someone is all in?
Does it matter nl or pl


Vol im no expert but when I play Live and I hear players saying out loud..."Hmmm ill call that 20 I have pot odds" they are saying it while we are playing NL holdem...so im not sure if PL or NL would be the same I lean to it though

the RX has a ton of top poker players here at the like Swami, Tekari, Blackbart. ProPokerplayer and others perhaps they will have more insite for you

I also forgot to add pot odds is also about the number of OUTS you have to win the hand and the money in it also ...
 

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Pot odds is simply calculating the odds you THINK you have when determining whether to cal or fold. For the most part, it is a lttle overrated as most thing. Because pot odds is strictly a long term phenomenon. In tournies it is actually almost a non factor. While the math is there, the ability to get the necessary hands to get back to the mean is nearly impossible. Meaning even if you do have pot odds, and lose, then you are pretty much screwed because getting that same situation probably isn't going to happen again.

So chasing a four flush on the flop when you have less than 4-1 pot odds in a tourny isn't nearly as bad as chasing that four flush in your local live game where you might have the oppurtunity to chase those things 50-60 times a week. So that 4-1 catches up with you sooner or later the more times you chase it. Especially when the odds are not there, and knowing that you will get almost zero action after your flush card does hit. Unless someone has a set or a bigger flush, where in both cases you have lost or still a chance to lose. SO basically you are "gambling" to catch something that can still lose for you even when you do get what you want.

Some people might disagree with this, but to me pt odds is something that is best left to the guys who play lots and lots of poker. In most cases when pot odds do become a factor most guys have cards that are decent enough to call with anyways. But again when it comes to tournies there are basically two moves, or at least it seems that way on TV...

The preflop raise, or all in depending on chip stack. Then the all in after the flop. I wish they would show more of the PLAYING of cards rather than the hands play that they seem to think are exciting. But maybe that is the trade off. They show the goofball calls, and all in no brainer hands, and keep the play that might hurt some players style of play off the screen.
 

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thanks wantitall


I play in my "neighborhood" game, and a couple of tournaments so it may not make a difference to me. I am usually calculating the same stuff, I just don't put it all together to make a Pot Odds number.

Thanks again
 

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Put in sporting terms:

If you figure the Red Sox have a 20% (4 to 1) chance of winning, and the odds are +200 (2 to 1), then you shouldn't bet. If the odds were +500 (5 to 1) then you should.

Put in poker terms:

In poker, you figure you have a 20% chance of making your hand. A $20 call on the turn against 1 player will pay even money, ignoring what's in the pot. With a $40 existing pot it'll only pay 3 to 1, a bad call. However with $80 already in the pot it'll pay 5 to 1, a decent call.
 

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I would STRONGLY suggest reading this book...........

THEORY OF POKER
by Sklansky, David
Order 521801...$29.95

Originally titled Sklansky on Poker Theory and later Winning Poker. Discusses theories and concepts applicable to nearly every variation of poker, including 5-card draw (high), 7-stud, hold `em, lo-ball draw and razz (7-card lo-ball stud). Chapters on deception, the bluff, raise, slow-play, position, psychology of poker, head-up play, game theory, implied odds. Considered one of the top general poker books of all time. 242 pages, paperbound. 1994.

521801.jpg
 

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Fish- decent book. But the thing I have about guys writing books, is if/when everyone reads them, then the strategies are useless.


Brunson's book is no better than toilet paper now since everyone has read it. Being agressive and try to steal is a death sentabce these days.

Also as far as odds. The thing that a lot of people forget is that if the have AK unsuited and a guy goes all in with 33, and 2 guys fold aces, and another guy folds a King, then you "coin flip" odds of 48-52 or so, to about 33-67.

When peopl eare talking pot odds, and implied odds, they are always showing the BEST chance. Meaning that IF all the cards you need are in the deck.

More simple way is that if you have KK and a guy calls you with QQ. If both his queens are folded by other players he is not a 4-1 dog anymore, he is about a 99-1 dog to win, and his chance then is limited to a 4 flush, if he holds a differing suit. The of course a slight percentage where the board beats them noth, but that is less than .5% I think.

So even pots odds are flawed to some degree. Since they only factor best case scenario, not real world probability.
 

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Can't you make a straight with a Q? And reading a book doesn't mean you have the balls to play that way. If you think that being aggressive is dead you ought to check out the tapes from the 2004 WSOP.... I didn't see to many passive players getting bracelets.

But I really like Moi's last statement:

More simple way is that if you have KK and a guy calls you with QQ. If both his queens are folded by other players he is not a 4-1 dog anymore, he is about a 99-1 dog to win, and his chance then is limited to a 4 flush, if he holds a differing suit.

It's sort of hold a pair of queens without them being different suits, isn't it?
 

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Ya I guess a str8 would work. SO that gives him another 1% chance to win I guess.


As far as the WSOP and agression, out of the 2500 or whatever guys got in, there were far more aggressive guys watching that final table than agressive players sitting at it.

That dude from Mass that made the final table two years in a row (his name escpae me now) Is as tight as they come, and doesn't throw chips around willy nilly. But the ONE time he did try to bluff, he got his ass busted. Not sure if that is a coincidence or not.

Also a big difference being able to be agressive and having a huge chip lead, comounded by having a horse shoe up your ass and winning. And being agressive when you have no leverage.

I saw only one legit winner in all those final tables last year. other thanthat the guys that won got every suck out they needed, or won every race, or caught every flop in the world.

I haven't seen the best hand hold up on those final tables in a long time. Except for Moneymaker's final hand, but then again he caught everything he needed up to that point, so that is an issue. All I know is I have seen him play a lot since, and he hasn't done ****.

Not unlike Raimer. He has been on some of those "celebrity" shows, and the cards they play are baffling, and call they make are assinine. But over the long haul that luck runs out, and if you play cards enough you go broke doing it.

I play cards daily. Sometimes I get sucked out on, it happens. But sooner or later I break that guy later on in the day or later on in the week. Because they can't catch every suck out every time. The it gets worse for them, because once you bust them and they rebuy, their next suck out doesn't hurt you as much since they do not have the chips. But again sooner or later you get all that second batch of chips when they chase you around. if not you, someone else.

I was playing cards before it was cool. I have seen the transformation. I have seen the mentalitychange. I don't tell stories because everyone that plays regularly knows them as well. It is part of the game. But everyone thinks they are on TV when they play these days.

It doesn't baffle me a bit when I make a big bet and some guy calls himself all in with a K-7 off suit when the board is 2-5-6-10 rainbow. As long as they have an overcard they are calling. But those are the guys you want. You can't bluff them, but you know they will pay you off when you have amonster. Same as the guy with a 4 card royal on the table you got the ace, and he calls you anyways for all his chips. That has happened more than a few time with me, and other guys I see. And we aren't talking a 100-200 call, we're talking calling yourself all in about 1500-2500 with 2 pair against a 4 card royal on the board.

OK so there are a couple stories. But nothing makes me blink these days. Which is actually better for my game, because there is now no tilt factor, simply because it is so commonplace, that it is like nothing happened at all.

Queens of differing suits than his kings smartazz:finger:
 

ODU GURU
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I am only an average player at best, but I can't stress the importance of KNOWING THE PLAYERS you are sitting with...

I have played in games where I have been far the best, and knowing this allowed me to do things a lot differently than playing at a table where I didn't know who the sucker was, so naturally it was ME...

THE SHRINK
 

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harrington pulled a semibluff.....its not like he was drawing dead on the turn....semi bluff has to be a part of your game to be successful...like raising ur flush draw for a free card is semi bluffing.
 

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NO reason to go out an buy a book. There are PLENTY of free books on the net that are just as good as any out there! They all contain basically the same basic information.


Oh and this comes from a player who has played holdem over 12 years now and play in and have WON MANY live tournaments each month with entry fees of $500-2000 each
 

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