Slow playing in Hold'em, long term winner or loser?

bigbet1234 · Jun 8, 2005

say you get dealt AA, KK, AK, AQ, QQ etc. I find when I do a slight raise in some tourneys, everyone folds. But most times is is table/player dependent. I also get beat most times, it seems, when I slow play, giving my opponents a chance to make a rag hand.

How does everyone else play the hands? I guess you have to get a feel for the table, and go from there, just curious.

BB

blueedwards · Jun 8, 2005

depends on the play at the table. if everyone is loose, raise early and often. if its tight you may want to slow play occasionally. i am not a big fan of slow plays most of the time. usually there is someone who will call it. if not, you pick up the blinds which aint all bad. nothing worse than slow playing then getting rivered.

Kiss1 · Jun 8, 2005

bigbet1234 said:
say you get dealt AA, KK, AK, AQ, QQ etc. I find when I do a slight raise in some tourneys, everyone folds. But most times is is table/player dependent. I also get beat most times, it seems, when I slow play, giving my opponents a chance to make a rag hand.

How does everyone else play the hands? I guess you have to get a feel for the table, and go from there, just curious.

BB

Make them pay to play against premuim hands, the shorter the number of players you have to beat the better your odds.

They are a lot of variables involved ..... Blah, Blah Blah ... :toast:

PO69 · Jun 8, 2005

slow playing will result in a much bigger return on your investment depedind on the table of course. Slow playing over the course of 1 year could result in triple to quadruple the amount that you would have won I would think

WildBill · Jun 8, 2005

In early position or in the blinds in limit slow playing isn't a bad idea. In No Limit its best to make a small raise. In late position or with others in the pot its a no brainer to raise.

blueedwards · Jun 8, 2005

WildBill said:
In early position or in the blinds in limit slow playing isn't a bad idea. In No Limit its best to make a small raise. In late position or with others in the pot its a no brainer to raise.

i concur

Kiss1 · Jun 8, 2005

WildBill said:
In early position or in the blinds in limit slow playing isn't a bad idea.

Yea Bill, I want my opponants to see the flop real cheap so they can kick my butt with sub par hands.

:hump:

Where ya playing Bill ?

I'll sit in.

It's hard enough to beat this game playing perfect poker, believe me Bill, I know.

WildBill · Jun 8, 2005

playersonly69 said:
slow playing will result in a much bigger return on your investment depedind on the table of course. Slow playing over the course of 1 year could result in triple to quadruple the amount that you would have won I would think

This statement is completely false. The best player playing these hands will wring maybe 50-100% more value out of these hands than the worst player, unless the worst player is a total moron. AA is going to win money over time no matter who plays it and how they play it. There is no way one style of playing it wins even double over time what another does.

Big danger in playing AA slowly is you let in too many players. Against 5 players AA still has plenty of value, but its going to lose a lot of pots. Against 2 players it has less value, but is going to win the majority of pots. Its give and take, but never to a triple or quadruple value situation.

WildBill · Jun 8, 2005

Kiss1 said:
Yea Bill, I want my opponants to see the flop real cheap so they can kick my butt with sub par hands.

:hump:

Where ya playing Bill ?

I'll sit in.

Come and get me Kiss :103631605

I play the 15/30 at Bellagio and 10/20 or 20/40 at Mirage occasionally. I don't slow play these every time in early position, but these days with so many loose games it often doesn't pay to raise upfront all the time, especially AK and AQ, but even for bigger hands too. It works well to wait to see if trouble comes on the board and then check raise to thin the field. Besides these days lots of games 2 betting just gets someone interested to play because it can build a pot.

Kiss1 · Jun 8, 2005

WildBill said:
Come and get me Kiss

I play the 15/30 at Bellagio and 10/20 or 20/40 at Mirage occasionally. I don't slow play these every time in early position, but these days with so many loose games it often doesn't pay to raise upfront all the time, especially AK and AQ, but even for bigger hands too. It works well to wait to see if trouble comes on the board and then check raise to thin the field. Besides these days lots of games 2 betting just gets someone interested to play because it can build a pot.

We were not talking AK or AQ it was AA. Those first two dogs don't hunt.

:103631605

Check raise before the flop ... I think not.

WildBill · Jun 8, 2005

Sorry I didn't clarify, I would check raise AFTER the flop to thin the field.

heart222 · Jun 9, 2005

thought the basic rule was with hands that are flush or stright oriented q-j j-1o etc slow is better cause you need lots of players. with aa take the money and run there is always someone with 10-10 or k-q that will pony up.

royalfan · Jun 9, 2005

heart222 said:
thought the basic rule was with hands that are flush or stright oriented q-j j-1o etc slow is better cause you need lots of players. with aa take the money and run there is always someone with 10-10 or k-q that will pony up.

I am a huge proponent of the slow play in large tourneys. Hopefully it works Friday at the WSOP. I need to figure out a way to trap someone fairly early to be able to utilize my strategy. Good luck to all in their wagering endeavors. Be back Monday unless I do well Friday and miss the wedding I am headed out there for which is Saturday. I will be the one drinking bud light with a Husker hat on.

Dante · Jun 9, 2005

bigbet1234 said:
say you get dealt AA, KK, AK, AQ, QQ etc. I find when I do a slight raise in some tourneys, everyone folds. But most times is is table/player dependent. I also get beat most times, it seems, when I slow play, giving my opponents a chance to make a rag hand.

How does everyone else play the hands? I guess you have to get a feel for the table, and go from there, just curious.

BB

BB I know for a fact that poker players that do NOT win play WAY to many hands...and think if they are on the small blind they HAVE to call since they are already in a little...both wrong

Fold the marginal hands more and you do not have to call on the small blind....im not saying to not take a shot once in awhile with a 6-7 or 10 J but be disiplined ... If you feel yourself playing alot of junk just for action you have lost your edge for that session and you should leave

imho

good luck

and as for those hands you listed about you MUST raise them you do not want people in the pot with junk chancing gutter ball straights or flushes...

PatPatriot · Jun 9, 2005

Played last nite...A,K Raise....(flop) rag,Ace,rag.....bet...(turn) rag....bet (river) K of hearts...bet...get called and FLUSHED down the toilet with 10,4 hearts.

Now I wouldn't play 10,4....even suited at gunpoint to begin wiith.

Dante · Jun 9, 2005

Patriot said:
Played last nite...A,K Raise....(flop) rag,Ace,rag.....bet...(turn) rag....bet (river) K of hearts...bet...get called and FLUSHED down the toilet with 10,4 hearts.

Now I wouldn't play 10,4....even suited at gunpoint to begin wiith.

yep Patriot...many novice people that have NO CLUE what the cards mean let alone what an OVER card is...they either get 100% LUCKY or lose there entore ass and never play poker again...

PatPatriot · Jun 9, 2005

What pisses me off is that I play a tight game and you know these guys fluctuate and mostly lose in the long run but they always seem to catch me with a good hand...I mean they get lucky on my expense. Pisses you off, thats why I'm starting to play more NL sit n' goes and raising 30% of my chips right off..no screwing around.

Also I did a little quick math and if you can finish top 3 sit'n goes 35-40% you can make money.

WildBill · Jun 9, 2005

Best thing to do is reorient your thinking. Any hand starts out with equity in the pot. If you have AA, but 8 callers you have the biggest piece of equity, but it isn't even 50% of a large pot. This is so important because a gaping hole in many players game is to refuse to admit this. If the board and the action dictates you are almost certainly beat, why don't players fold? I think some players call just so they can show their rockets and hope players show some sympathy. If the guy just looked at the equity equation those folds become easier and his stack and bankroll improve.

Fishhead · Jun 9, 2005

WildBill said:
Best thing to do is reorient your thinking. Any hand starts out with equity in the pot. If you have AA, but 8 callers you have the biggest piece of equity, but it isn't even 50% of a large pot. This is so important because a gaping hole in many players game is to refuse to admit this. If the board and the action dictates you are almost certainly beat, why don't players fold? I think some players call just so they can show their rockets and hope players show some sympathy. If the guy just looked at the equity equation those folds become easier and his stack and bankroll improve.

Beginning players..........READ and RE-READ this post!

-F-

SupBro · Jun 9, 2005

When I play online and get theses hands I roll a die and if it comes up 6 then I slow play. Works out to 17% of the time. Live play I try and mix it up at the same rate.

bigbet1234 said:
say you get dealt AA, KK, AK, AQ, QQ etc. I find when I do a slight raise in some tourneys, everyone folds. But most times is is table/player dependent. I also get beat most times, it seems, when I slow play, giving my opponents a chance to make a rag hand.

How does everyone else play the hands? I guess you have to get a feel for the table, and go from there, just curious.

BB