Texas Hold'em Table Game At The Borgata...

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RPM

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Has anyone ever played this? i was in ac a few days ago and i tried it for a little while. it occured to me that i was playing heads up vs. an opponent with an UNLIMITED stack. i think you have to be an idiot to play this way.....


thought?
 

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Playing against an unlimited stack is not a problem. I don't know the game but it has to be skewed to be a casino game. What are the rules?

A key feature of holdem is to not pay for a hand and then be able to throw it away. In the casino game I presume you pay for every hand, while the dealer is allowed to throw their hand away. Rules please!
 

RPM

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ok, before the hand is dealt, you bet an "ante" bet. you also have the option of betting a "bonus" bet that pays odds on certain hands. for our purpose here, we'll assume that you are NOT betting the bonus.

ok, once you have made your ante bet, you are dealt two cards. if you like your cards and want to see the flop, you have to double your ante bet on the "flop" bet. after the flop, if you like your hand, you have the option to bet on the "turn" bet. after the turn, you have the option to bet on the "river" bet. the turn and river bets are equal to your ante bet. also, they are OPTIONAL. if you choose not to bet them, you are still in the hand.

after the river is turned, the dealer flips his two cards and the person with the best hand wins. The dealer does NOT get the option of folding the hand.
 

RPM

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felt_lge.jpg
 

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It pays even money (1:1) on your ante+preflop+turn+river?

And the dealer needs no qualifying hand.

Ties push or go to the dealer?

Interesting game. Perhaps I'll run some simulations to determine optimal play and expected house edge.
 

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Being true to Hold'em, those bets would actually be:

Small Blind (required)
Pre-flop (call big blind or fold)
Flop (raise small blind or check)
Turn (raise small blind or check)
River (no bet allowed, show cards)
 

RPM

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Adam Selene said:
It pays even money (1:1) on your ante+preflop+turn+river?

And the dealer needs no qualifying hand.

Ties push or go to the dealer?

Interesting game. Perhaps I'll run some simulations to determine optimal play and expected house edge.


yes. ante, flop, turn, and river bets all pay exactly what you bet on them. for instance if you have $20 bet on the ante then your flop bet is $40, your turn bet is $20 and your river bet is $20.

the dealer does not have to qualify, and ties push.
 

RPM

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please let me know how the simulations turn out....
 

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Seems to me these games would be $5 minimum at the lowest, that being the case it would be much cheaper to just play a low limit (say 2-4) game in the poker room. The market for this are the people that are too intimidated to play in the poker room, but that is not as bad as it was in the past. It might siphon off some Let it Die or Carribean Dud players, but that's about it.
 

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Interesting game. I understand you can forfeit and so lose your pre-flop $20 bet or can bet all streets putting $100 on the table that is paid even money, with the turn and river $20 bets being optional.

Now if you throw away all hands that have a less than 50% change of winning, as you should, you have to play an equal number of hands that have a 60% chance of winning for $100 just to break even.

That is forfeit 10 hands at $20; lose $200. Play 10 hands for $100, win 6 for $600 and lose 4 for a loss of $400. Net return is zero.

Consequently you should not play for $100, some hands that have a better than 50% chance of winning. The more hands you throw away the higher the winning percentage you need for the hands you do play. It is possible to solve for the minimal winning percentage hands that should be played to maximize return. This is an aggresssive, play for the maximum or fold pre-flop, simple strategy. Alternatively one could play a mixed strategy based on the winning percentage basic strategy but playing more hands and using a conditional strategy based on the board cards.

I'm calculating heads up winning percentages and may have more to add later.

As a casino game this should be a losing proposition for the player with the casino advantage being that the player has to forfeit hands that are likely to lose.
 

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I must be missing a critical game rule.

I bet $1 ante, $2 raise to play. Ignoring the optional bets, this is going to pay me $3 if I win, or $1 if I win?

If it pays $3, the game is 50/50 (no house edge) *before* you consider the ability for the player to fold preflop or raise the turn and river. After you consider those the game is substantially in the player's favor.


Think about it. If you play blind and call out every hand, the dealer is also essentially playing blind and calling out every hand. Neither has an advantage, it's 50/50 showdown.

Are you certain that the pre-flop raise to play also pays 1:1?
 

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The Borgata (and Bally's) are running Mikohn's "Texas Hold'em Bonus Poker"

http://www.mikohn.com/games/texas_hold-em.cfm

Unfortunately Mikohn doesn't provide the full rules of their games on their website.

Fortunately, via the power of the Internet, I found the full rules in the South Dakota State gaming regulations:

http://legis.state.sd.us/rules/rules/2018a.htm#20:18:16:15.12

20:18:16:15.12. The play -- Texas Hold 'em Bonus poker. Texas Hold 'em Bonus poker must be played by the following rules:

(1) Players begin by placing wagers in the spot marked "ante." This wager is required in order to receive a two-card hand also known as hole cards;

(2) At the same time, players have an option to place a side bet wager. The side bet does not interact with a player and the dealer comparing hands for the best poker rating;

(3) The dealer shuffles, cuts the deck, and deals, face down a two-card hand to each player occupying a "player position," plus two cards to the dealer position. The cards are dealt "blackjack-style," one card at a time, face down, in a clockwise manner, starting to the dealer's left;

(4) Following the deal, players review their two-card hand and decide to do one of the following without interaction or communication with any other players:

(a) "Fold" by discarding their two-card hand and forfeiting the ante wager; or

(b) "Bet" by placing a wager twice the amount of their "ante" wager on the "flop." Once players have placed both the ante and flop wagers, they are "in for the finish" of the hand;

(5) The dealer now "burns" one card face down and then turns over the next three cards in the deck. These community cards become the three-card flop, also called "the flop." The three-card flop must remain in the center of the table for all players to view and use to complete their hands;

(6) Starting from the dealer's left, the dealer proceeds in a clockwise manner. Players then elect to "check" or "bet" (to see the turn card). The turn is the fourth community card. Players electing to bet must place a wager amount equal to their ante wager. The dealer now burns another card. The dealer then turns the next community card up, also called the turn card, and places it in the center of the table in the area provided. The turn card must remain in place for all players to view and use to complete their hands;

(7) Starting from the dealer's left, the dealer proceeds in a clockwise manner. Players elect to "check" or "bet" (to see the river card). The river is the fifth and last of the community cards;

(8) Players electing to bet must place a wager amount equal to their ante wager;

(9) The dealer now burns another card. The dealer then turns the last community card up and places it in the center of the table in the area provided. The river card must remain in place for all players to view and use to complete their hands;

(10) The dealer turns the dealer's own two-card hand face up and verbally announces the best possible five-card poker hand using three or four of the community cards to create a five-card poker hand. If the best possible poker hand proves to be the five community cards, the dealer may elect to "play the board" by using all five of the community cards instead. The dealer moves any community cards being used slightly forward of their designated area on the board;

(11) Starting to the dealer's right (blackjack style), the dealer turns over the first player's two-card hand and evaluates the best possible five-card poker hand using three or four of the community cards to create a five-card poker hand. If the best possible hand proves to be the community cards, the player may elect not to use the two-card hand and "play the board" by using all five community cards instead. The dealer will then verbally announce the poker ranking. First the dealer should take the bonus wagers if they do not appear on the pay table, or pay the bonus as indicated on the pay table. Then the dealer shall arrange the player's hand into the best possible poker ranking and verbally announce the player's ranking;

(12) If a player's hand value and the dealer's hand value are equal, the dealer indicates a "push" and moves any flop, turn, or river wagers to the rear of the board and slightly off the betting spot, leaving the ante wager in place;

(13) If the player's hand is a lesser value than the dealer's hand, the dealer takes that player's ante, flop, turn, and river wagers and places them in the bankroll tray;

(14) If the player's hand is a greater value than the dealer's hand, the dealer shall pay flop, turn, and river wagers even money (1-1);

(15) If the player's winning hand is a "flush" or greater, the player shall be paid an additional amount equal to the player's ante;

(16) After the dealer has completed the entire procedure for a player, the dealer shall move to the next player to the left and continue in a counterclockwise manner, addressing one player at a time, first the bonus wager, then the base game wager.

Source: 31 SDR 165, effective May 10, 2005.

General Authority: SDCL 42-7B-7.
 

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As with any table game, you can usually identify just one or two elements that account for the house edge.

What gives this game its house edge is that the ante pays 1:1 only if the player wins with a flush or better. Otherwise the ante pays nothing. The flop (double ante to play) does pay 1:1, along with the optional turn and river bets.

The SD rule #12 states that in the event of a push, the ante wager is left in place. Does that mean it is lost (swept), or does that mean that rule #15 applies to pushes as well? It is annoyingly ambiguous.
 

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Ignoring the ante bonus on winning flushes or better, and ignoring turn and river wagers, here's the expected return on each hand:

name prob win draw ev avgreturn
---- ---- ------ ------ ------- ----------------------------------------
AA .45 84.93 .54 .42 .006429718918972
KK .45 82.12 .56 .37 .006218050430731
QQ .45 79.63 .59 .33 .006031960699208
JJ .45 77.15 .63 .29 .005847117012005
TT .45 74.66 .70 .25 .005662298866071
99 .45 71.67 .78 .20 .005440088381615
88 .45 68.72 .89 .15 .005222636958930
AKs .30 66.22 1.65 .12 .003379066728323
AQs .30 65.31 1.79 .11 .003337752395179
77 .45 65.73 1.02 .11 .005002877573404
AJs .30 64.40 1.99 .09 .003297722006472
AKo .90 64.47 1.70 .09 .009877859812910
AQo .90 63.51 1.85 .08 .009746070856387
ATs .30 63.49 2.23 .08 .003259179542888
66 .45 62.70 1.17 .06 .004781424821887
KQs .30 62.41 1.98 .06 .003197526394379
AJo .90 62.54 2.06 .06 .009618231444349
ATo .90 61.57 2.31 .05 .009495078238189
KJs .30 61.48 2.18 .05 .003156636340637
A9s .30 61.51 2.54 .05 .003169206734494
A8s .30 60.51 2.87 .04 .003128758719676
KTs .30 60.59 2.40 .03 .003118595112469
KQo .90 60.43 2.05 .03 .009300227677430
A7s .30 59.39 3.19 .02 .003082122462403
A9o .90 59.45 2.65 .02 .009206247269937
55 .45 59.64 1.37 .01 .004559720779374
KJo .90 59.44 2.25 .01 .009169558905448
QJs .30 59.07 2.38 .01 .003041572194304
QTs .30 58.17 2.59 .00 .003002862906637
KTo .90 58.49 2.49 .00 .009047939870979
K9s .30 58.64 2.70 .00 .003029589880493
A5s .30 58.06 3.72 .00 .003031407081850
A6s .30 58.18 3.45 .00 .003029221420844
A8o .90 58.37 3.00 .00 .009075760935383
A7o .90 57.17 3.34 -.01 .008925419521662
A4s .30 57.14 3.79 -.01 .002987069045496
K8s .30 56.79 3.04 -.02 .002947045646123
A3s .30 56.34 3.77 -.02 .002946072096174
K9o .90 56.41 2.81 -.03 .008762108729070
Q9s .30 56.22 2.88 -.03 .002913656450401
QJo .90 56.91 2.46 -.03 .008805487372951
A5o .90 55.74 3.91 -.03 .008761294484636
A6o .90 55.87 3.62 -.03 .008754884107926
QTo .90 55.95 2.69 -.04 .008681668355095
K7s .30 55.85 3.38 -.04 .002909804968473
JTs .30 56.15 2.75 -.04 .002906107206824
A2s .30 55.51 3.75 -.04 .002903641293670
K6s .30 54.80 3.67 -.05 .002866161304206
A4o .90 54.73 3.99 -.05 .008616747973514
44 .45 56.26 1.53 -.05 .004311921767514
K5s .30 53.83 3.92 -.06 .002824772787290
K8o .90 54.43 3.18 -.06 .008497417852357
Q8s .30 54.42 3.20 -.06 .002832472390227
A3o .90 53.86 3.98 -.06 .008483025701132
Q9o .90 53.86 3.00 -.07 .008395191723770
K7o .90 53.42 3.54 -.07 .008377278218228
J9s .30 54.11 3.10 -.07 .002814105971546
JTo .90 53.83 2.84 -.07 .008375873705867
K4s .30 52.89 3.99 -.08 .002779476881926
A2o .90 52.95 3.96 -.08 .008344616789995
K3s .30 52.07 3.97 -.09 .002737654416551
K6o .90 52.30 3.85 -.09 .008236577773499
Q7s .30 52.52 3.56 -.09 .002748015009835
J8s .30 52.31 3.41 -.09 .002732852810447
T9s .30 52.38 3.30 -.09 .002732914011699
Q6s .30 51.68 3.87 -.10 .002714893458615
Q8o .90 51.93 3.34 -.10 .008134788251044
K5o .90 51.25 4.12 -.10 .008103466653634
33 .45 52.84 1.71 -.10 .004062130040527
K2s .30 51.24 3.94 -.11 .002695127378401
Q5s .30 50.71 4.11 -.11 .002673735698051
J9o .90 51.64 3.22 -.11 .008080476638262
J7s .30 50.45 3.74 -.12 .002649514621804
T8s .30 50.51 3.65 -.12 .002649543253624
K4o .90 50.23 4.20 -.12 .007955948062098
Q4s .30 49.76 4.18 -.13 .002628142533640
Q7o .90 49.90 3.72 -.13 .007863940605450
Q6o .90 49.00 4.06 -.14 .007757098431816
Q3s .30 48.94 4.16 -.14 .002585993661108
K3o .90 49.33 4.19 -.14 .007819694529168
T9o .90 49.82 3.43 -.14 .007824263613371
J8o .90 49.71 3.55 -.14 .007819828676917
J6s .30 48.57 4.06 -.15 .002564717929874
T7s .30 48.65 3.98 -.15 .002565942600639
K2o .90 48.42 4.17 -.15 .007681133043465
98s .30 48.86 3.89 -.15 .002573637590040
Q2s .30 48.10 4.13 -.16 .002543111067690
Q5o .90 47.96 4.32 -.16 .007624781201029
T8o .90 47.82 3.81 -.16 .007556848777590
J5s .30 47.82 4.33 -.16 .002534943714860
22 .45 49.39 1.90 -.16 .003810240398872
J4s .30 46.87 4.40 -.17 .002489231296500
J7o .90 47.73 3.91 -.17 .007552502896178
Q4o .90 46.92 4.41 -.17 .007476360157079
97s .30 46.99 4.25 -.17 .002490860702419
T6s .30 46.80 4.28 -.18 .002482090060792
T7o .90 45.83 4.16 -.19 .007288659110890
J3s .30 46.04 4.38 -.19 .002446938099021
Q3o .90 46.02 4.39 -.19 .007339116714462
98o .90 46.07 4.06 -.19 .007315652019785
87s .30 45.68 4.50 -.19 .002432719292381
96s .30 45.15 4.55 -.20 .002407426623281
Q2o .90 45.11 4.37 -.20 .007199477861796
J2s .30 45.20 4.35 -.20 .002403886109657
J6o .90 45.71 4.26 -.20 .007280606314103
J5o .90 44.90 4.55 -.21 .007184937599975
T5s .30 44.94 4.55 -.21 .002396767506350
T4s .30 44.20 4.65 -.22 .002362784235959
T6o .90 43.85 4.49 -.22 .007019725341890
J4o .90 43.87 4.64 -.22 .007036186193518
97o .90 44.07 4.45 -.22 .007050219567574
86s .30 43.82 4.85 -.22 .002349332372070
95s .30 43.31 4.82 -.23 .002322961688369
T3s .30 43.38 4.63 -.23 .002320528795742
J3o .90 42.97 4.62 -.24 .006898537162454
87o .90 42.69 4.72 -.24 .006866110992892
76s .30 42.83 5.08 -.24 .002306698072096
85s .30 41.99 5.11 -.25 .002265253860065
96o .90 42.10 4.78 -.25 .006782644901839
J2o .90 42.05 4.60 -.25 .006758417495402
T2s .30 42.54 4.60 -.25 .002277493569753
T5o .90 41.86 4.79 -.25 .006746552693000
94s .30 41.41 4.91 -.26 .002229911535785
75s .30 40.98 5.39 -.26 .002222968474053
65s .30 40.35 5.57 -.27 .002196602612417
93s .30 40.81 4.91 -.27 .002199886953059
86o .90 40.70 5.09 -.27 .006598757969571
T4o .90 41.06 4.90 -.27 .006635573437826
T3o .90 40.16 4.88 -.28 .006498103139557
84s .30 40.10 5.20 -.28 .002173021471031
92s .30 39.97 4.88 -.28 .002157044510918
95o .90 40.14 5.06 -.28 .006512160980596
76o .90 39.65 5.34 -.29 .006464032260408
74s .30 39.11 5.48 -.29 .002131593391035
64s .30 38.48 5.70 -.30 .002106776639953
54s .30 38.53 5.84 -.30 .002113504179013
85o .90 38.74 5.37 -.30 .006329528957309
T2o .90 39.24 4.86 -.30 .006358099210694
83s .30 38.28 5.18 -.31 .002081030287834
94o .90 38.09 5.17 -.31 .006212383877322
93o .90 37.43 5.18 -.32 .006114303838750
82s .30 37.68 5.18 -.32 .002050785163345
75o .90 37.67 5.67 -.32 .006195991823173
73s .30 37.30 5.46 -.32 .002040342471756
65o .90 37.01 5.86 -.32 .006113214437478
63s .30 36.69 5.70 -.33 .002016248666577
53s .30 36.76 5.87 -.33 .002025129187433
84o .90 36.71 5.48 -.33 .006032325093729
92o .90 36.52 5.16 -.34 .005974980532929
74o .90 35.66 5.78 -.35 .005901575814977
54o .90 35.07 6.16 -.35 .005847870354319
43s .30 35.73 5.83 -.35 .001972089815551
52s .30 34.93 5.84 -.36 .001932291932447
62s .30 34.84 5.66 -.36 .001922335212874
64o .90 35.00 6.01 -.36 .005823829282656
72s .30 35.44 5.43 -.36 .001945656340021
83o .90 34.75 5.47 -.37 .005736139558814
82o .90 34.09 5.48 -.38 .005637382049590
73o .90 33.72 5.77 -.38 .005607711351498
42s .30 33.92 5.82 -.38 .001880906424837
53o .90 33.16 6.20 -.39 .005563307555005
63o .90 33.07 6.02 -.39 .005532307584873
32s .30 33.09 5.78 -.39 .001838256530690
43o .90 32.07 6.16 -.40 .005393938321666
72o .90 31.71 5.75 -.41 .005302914144906
52o .90 31.19 6.18 -.42 .005264376038869
62o .90 31.08 5.99 -.42 .005229929844005
42o .90 30.12 6.16 -.44 .005100485493990
32o .90 29.24 6.13 -.45 .004964703443392
sum
========================================
.840112355679773

Giving a house edge of 16%.

The ante bonus decreases that edge, and play strategy (folding ev- hands and raising ev+ hands) will reduce the house edge very substantially. I'll have to run some simulations to determine it, combinatorial analysis gets to complicated.
 

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every new game that the casino offers is going to be worse value than the original craps and blackjack the casinos offered.
 

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Adam Selene said:
Giving a house edge of 16%.

The ante bonus decreases that edge, and play strategy (folding ev- hands and raising ev+ hands) will reduce the house edge very substantially. I'll have to run some simulations to determine it, combinatorial analysis gets to complicated.

Wow Adam, that was a lot of work. The rules you quote and the treatment of the ante gives the house edge. Ah well, I've lost interest now since it can't be a cash cow.
 

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