Kyl Bill Update

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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=440 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=headlineblack style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 5px">Resistance Underway Against Bill to Ban Online Gambling </TD></TR><TR><TD class=storytext style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px">Wednesday, June 15, 2005

By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>WASHINGTON — Arizona Republican Sen. Jon Kyl is planning to go yet another round in his decade-long fight against Internet gambling, but critics say the industry is far too lucrative and elusive to be corralled by Congress now.

"Seven times the United States tried to ban online betting and each time it failed," said Marc Lesnick, an online gaming industry veteran who runs StartCasino.com, an informational site for prospective online casino operators and founder of Alternative Solutions for Reliable Online Commerce.

"The industry is so lucrative," Lesnick said. "Any attempt by the U.S. government (to stop it) at this point would be too late."

But a spokesman in Kyl's office said that the senator plans to introduce legislation this summer similar to previous bills he has offered prohibiting online betting. Details on the bill were not available but prior attempts attempted to shut down electronic funds transfers for online gaming.

Word of Kyl's latest attempt has representatives from the different gaming interests — including horse racing, tribal casinos, poker and sports — girding for another fight.

The chance of Kyl succeeding has increased because Republicans now control both the Congress and the White House, said Tony Cabot, a Las Vegas attorney, whose clients include horseracing interests. He said online and off-track betting has accounted for $3 billion a year in revenues and is credited with the only growth in the horseracing industry today.

The Congressional Horse Caucus recently sent a letter to the Arizona congressman's office to argue against including Internet wagering on horse races in any future legislation. They say that off-track betting, including Internet and simulcast wagers, are "the lifeblood of the industry" and are protected by the Interstate Horseracing Act, a point of contention with the Department of Justice.

The letter, dated May 31 and signed by Reps. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., and Ben Chandler, D-Ky., urges Kyl to skip over horse racing.

"Every recent version of Internet gambling legislation has contained clarification that its enforcement mechanism does not apply to account wagers on horseracing conducted pursuant to the IHA. ... We believe that such clarifications are obvious steps to implement what has clearly been congressional intent for several years, and we strongly urge you to include such provisions in your bill," they wrote.

According to Lesnick, all forms of gambling in the United States, particularly in Las Vegas, have "seen an explosion in the last 20 years" from traditional bricks and mortar casinos to online betting.

"Anybody in the United States would be blind not to notice it," he said.

Internet betting in particular has grown exceptionally fast, say industry analysts with more than 2,000 gambling Web sites estimated to be operating, compared to 26 Web sites when Kyl first introduced legislation that would ban them in 1995.

Lesnick said much of the wealth is concentrated in about 200 "strong online casinos," the top tier of which cater to today's growing popular trends in gambling, including poker, which is experiencing a resurgence of sorts on college campuses across the country. PartyPoker.com transacted 2 billion wagers last year, Lesnick said.

What's more is the money made through this growth, an estimated $7.5 billion in 2004, compared with $4 billion four years ago, said Lesnick, who noted that the tide has not slowed as a result of prosecutions under federal anti-gaming laws and federal pressure on both major credit card companies to stop transacting bets and online media to stop accepting ads from gaming Web sites.

"This industry has shown a level of resilience that I've never seen before," said Lesnick.

But some Republican lawmakers said they believe they have a moral obligation to pursue the ban as online gaming provides minors with easy access and poses additional pitfalls for the approximately 7 million problem gamblers in the country today.

"The negative consequences of online gambling can be as detrimental to the families and communities of addictive gamblers as if a bricks and mortar casino was built right next door," Rep. Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., who has introduced in the House a series of failed measures to stop Internet gambling, said in a statement to FOXNews.com.

"Go into any home with a computer, [online gambling] can reach every home in the nation," said Guy Clark, chairman of the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling, which supports Kyl's efforts. "If you have a kid in the house, or a sibling or whomever, who has a problem with gambling, it makes quite a difference."

The National Council on Problem Gambling reports no noticeable increase in its constituency since the advent of online gambling a decade ago, but the organization is aware that online gaming has increased in the severity of problem gambling, as Internet wagers are
so much more accessible, said NCPG executive director Keith Whyte.

"It allows [gamblers] to lose more money, faster," said Whyte, adding that NCPG takes no official position on criminalizing gambling activities.

Over the years, some congressional proposals have tried to extend the federal Wire Act, which prohibits betting from one state to another over phone lines connected to the Internet.

While the Wire Act has been used to prosecute some online sports betting operations, including one high-profile case of a New York corporation running its bets on servers in the Caribbean island of Antigua, experts dispute its actual reach into online gaming.

In addition, companies have moved their entire operations off-shore to gaming-friendly places like Antigua, the United Kingdom or more than 45 other countries that now allow such gambling enterprises. That has made it harder for American law enforcement to shut them down.

Recent efforts to hobble the industry have centered around cutting off the ability of Americans to place online bets by trying to restrict credit card companies and other financial institutions from allowing transactions. While VISA and Master Card have voluntarily stayed out of the gambling business, online payment processors like Neteller have sprung up in their absence to make millions. They would be most affected by such a ban, say experts.

Attorney Cabot said such a ban "might slow the industry down," but "ultimately, they will not be successful" as payment processors will move offshore with the online gaming sites and serious betters will invest in offshore bank accounts to pay for their activities.

"There will always be people who are motivated to get around the prohibition," he said.

Experts say Kyl's bills and other attempts to ban online gaming have largely failed because lawmakers are squeamish about restricting Internet activity, particularly e-commerce, and different gaming interests demanding exemptions or the ultimate defeat of the bills weighed too heavily against them.

"It is one of the only profitable industries online," said Cabot.

Goodlatte disagrees, saying that states that already outlaw offline gambling should be respected, and that the market does not trump these values.

"I think we can all agree that it would be very bad public policy to allow offline activity deemed criminal by states to be freely committed online and to go unpunished simply because we are reluctant to apply our laws to the Internet," he said.

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planning to go yet another round in his decade-long fight against Internet gambling, but critics say the industry is far too lucrative and elusive to be corralled by Congress now.
****


says it right there it will NEVER pass..
 
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"The chance of Kyl succeeding has increased because Republicans now control both the Congress and the White House, said Tony Cabot"

Not a good sign, but I still think that there is WAYYYYY too much going against him.
 

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Any sportsbook taking action on whether or not this will pass this year?

:smoker2:
 

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TTinCO said:
"The chance of Kyl succeeding has increased because Republicans now control both the Congress and the White House, said Tony Cabot"

Not a good sign, but I still think that there is WAYYYYY too much going against him.
and your opinion TT I respect as you know alot....I totally agree and it will not effect the small actual bettor itself anyway even on the slim, slim margin it passes IMO and this football season would be ok anyway would not go into effect until jan 1 06 at the earliest i would think
 

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I think there is a very strong possibility that it passes this time around with much stricter guidelines. But I don't think they are really all that concerend about how it affects the bettors...he will focus everything on the advertising outlets and money processing means. The bettors will not have to worry about legal troubles...but it may get more difficult to send/receive money.
 

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I will bet no it doesn't pass for the max. Its farther behind than it ever has been and Kyl is grasping for anything. Right now he doesn't have to make changes, but he will when it gets moving. He can't cut out the horse crowd, the bill is DOA if he keeps the restrictions in it. When he cuts out the horse crowd, the WTO angle is gone. Once he lets one crowd in, others will block it unless they are included. Sound like what has happened the last 7 years?
 

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By far the most troubling aspect of Kyl's bill is that it contains language to punish the individual bettor. The man is INSANE!
 

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What about Denmark....do they allow online gambling? I was reading a couple of weeks ago that they have legal marijuana barrs there...and one of the lowest crime rates of any country..
 
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I'm sure Jay will chime in on this before too long, and he knows this inside & out.

The part that concerns me is that the US govt could probably make it very, very difficult to transfer money. Does anyone know if the gov't could create any legal grounds to prevent people in the US from using Neteller(or others)? That would put a big dent in things if there was a way to do it effectively.
 

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where is that on the bill Who??? post it please , can you post where it says the ind. bettors will go to jail?
 

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here is an article in MAY done on it WHO


I do not see it in there


Online Gambling Bill to be Introduced by Arizona Senator
3 May 2005

After several previous attempts to officially prohibit online gambling, Arizona senator John Kyl is at it again. This year's version of his online gambling bill has been drafted and is expected be introduced within the coming weeks. Senator Kyl's bill proposes to criminalize the use of credit cards, wire transfers and other methods of payment to sponsor online gambling ventures, which was the major theme of previous versions as well.

Nonetheless, whereas prior attempts included a definition of legal versus illegal online gambling, this version refrains from making such clear distinctions. The 2005 bill also does not make an exception for internet horse betting, an activity which is permitted in certain states. The lack of exemptions for selectively legal forms of online gambling is what prevented previous versions of the bill from being passed in both the House and Senate.

Senator Kyl will have until the 109th Congress concludes in November 2006 to succeed in getting the bill through both congressional chambers.
 

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It will just institutionalize what is already practice...you can't use credit cards for gambling. They might try to make it tougher to send WU or Neteller, but there will almost surely be ways around it. What am I talking about anyways, no way it passes.
 

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another from Pokernes.com

nothing there all say its doomed

Senator Kyl is at it again
May 14, 2005
John Caldwell

Senator John Kyl is attempting for the second time in his term to cripple online gaming companies with the introduction of his Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2005. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2005 is not an attempt to outlaw online gaming, but rather an attempt to stop consumers ability to use their personal "instruments of banking" to fund online gaming accounts.

Kyl, a Republican from Arizona is apparently of the mind that people's "instruments of banking" should be allowed to fund what he wants them to be able to fund, and not allow consumers to make their own minds up. Still, Senator Kyl's bill seems to have some challenges ahead of it.

The bill appears to be doomed to failure, because the Senator could not include any 'carve outs' in the legislation. A 'carve out' is essentially a loophole in legislation to allow a particular group, in this case the online horse betting industry, to be grandfathered out, and thus not subject to any regulation under this bill.

The problem here is the World Trade Organization recently ruled that the US could possibly assert a 'for the good of the public' type defense that could lead to an overturn of that case, but that any such defense would have to include all types of gaming, including horse betting, and state lotteries. Both of these industries have very powerful, and well funded lobbies in Washington, and it is doubtful that these lobbies would sit by, and allow themselves to be written out of business.

Many people in the industry don't give the Senator's bill much of a chance of becoming law. "Senator Kyl's bill really doesn't stand much of a hope," comments Nigel Payne, CEO of Sportingbet. Let's hope Mr. Payne is correct
 

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Whoson1st said:
By far the most troubling aspect of Kyl's bill is that it contains language to punish the individual bettor. The man is INSANE!

Ya think?
 

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Dante....I don't have the bill or a link to it now...But it stated up to 5 years imprisionment for Anyone...not just in the business of....Ask Jay C or Wild Bill..They must have read the original bill. Of course enforcement would be very difficult...but I would not risk it.
 

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Whoson1st said:
Dante....I don't have the bill or a link to it now...But it stated up to 5 years imprisionment for Anyone...not just in the business of....Ask Jay C or Wild Bill..They must have read the original bill. Of course enforcement would be very difficult...but I would not risk it.
WHo... you sound like a poster we had here at one time named OLDMANTIME....


Please direct me to the link where jayC or Wildbill says that ...I have NEVER heard of that part...thanks

or maybe someone else reading can confirm that it says it will punish the the ind. bettor for 5 yrs???
 
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WOW WHO, looks like you are right...I stand corrected

`(b) GAMBLING-

`(1) PROHIBITION- It shall be unlawful for a person to place, receive, or otherwise make a bet or wager, via the Internet or any other interactive computer service in any State.

`(2) PENALTIES- A person who willfully violates paragraph (1) shall be--

`(A) fined in an amount that is not more than the greater of--

`(i) the amount that the person is found to have wagered via the Internet; or

`(ii) $2,500;

`(B) imprisoned not more than 6 months; or

`(C) both.

`(c) GAMBLING INFORMATION-

`(1) PROHIBITION- It shall be unlawful for a person engaged in the business of betting or wagering to engage in that business through the Internet or through any other interactive computer service in any State.

`(2) PENALTIES- A person engaged in the business of betting or wagering who violates paragraph (1) shall be--

`(A) fined in an amount that is not more than the greater of--

`(i) the amount that such person is found to have received in bets or wagers as a result of engaging in that business in violation of this subsection; or

`(ii) $20,000;

`(B) imprisoned not more than 4 years; or

`(C) both.'.
****

thats from the KYL bill If this passes it does effect the IND. bettor....so we better pray it does not ...I for sure would not risk it , id find another hobby...hey at least we get a warning and few months after the pass it, IF they pass it
 

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Dante...I did not say there was a link. EXCUSE THE CAPS> I PERSONALLY READ THE KYL BILL AND NO_ONE WAS EXEMPT>

Best hope it does NOT pass.

Maybe someone would link his bill here. Then YOU can read it for YOURSELF. Why would I want to make this up and why do yoy keep talking about oldmantime. He died with OMT (OldmanTed...took his place) I don't want to be confused with any other poster.
 

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