Don't bet on Web gambling crackdown, experts say....( thanks clevfan for the article)

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Mon Jun 20, 2005 01:04 PM ET

By Andy Sullivan
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Online-poker company PartyGaming has warned investors that the U.S. government could interfere with its operations, but observers say that's about as likely as drawing four aces in a game of five-card stud.

U.S. law enforcers are unlikely to directly pursue PartyGaming -- which plans a public stock offering in London next week -- or any other online-gambling company due to unresolved legal questions, several industry experts said.

"It's so remote that the chances approach those of being hit by lighting," said Joseph Kelly, a professor of business law at the University of Buffalo law professor who has helped other countries draft online-gambling rules.

The U.S. Justice Department says several laws that prohibit interstate gambling apply to the Internet as well, and it intends to prosecute violators.

Under pressure from the Justice Department, services like Visa and PayPal have blocked payments to gambling sites, while media outlets and search engines like Yahoo Inc. have declined to run their ads.

That hasn't stopped millions of U.S. citizens from placing bets on offshore Web sites like PartyGaming's PartyPoker.com, which is based in Gibraltar.

Online casinos like Bodog.com sponsor glitzy Las Vegas conferences, and other payment services like e-gold have stepped in to handle the business that Visa and eBay Inc.'s PayPal are leaving on the table.

PartyGaming plans to go public by June 27 in what promises to be the London Stock Exchange's largest IPO in four years.

The company warned last week that anti-gambling efforts by the United States could make it difficult to advertise and collect payments, and could even result in jail time for company officials.

The Justice Department has so far prosecuted only one online gambling operation, an Antiguan sports-betting Web site run by a U.S. citizen, in 2000. Justice Department officials said that several other companies have pleaded guilty before going to trial.

The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in November 2002 that the 1961 Wire Act, which forbids interstate telephone betting, only applies to sports-betting operations, not online casinos or poker rooms.

The World Trade Organization ruled last year that the United States's anti-gambling stance violates international trade agreements, a decision the U.S. government has appealed.

"I think the Department of Justice is just sending out all these messages to avoid a confrontation where they might have to prove it in a court of law," said Frank Catania, a former gambling regulator for the state of New Jersey who now works as a consultant to the industry.

Justice Department officials said they haven't brought more cases because of a lack of resources, not a shaky legal foundation. Even if the Fifth Circuit's decision stands, two other 1960s-era anti-gambling laws can be used against Internet gambling sites, they said.

Efforts to pass an anti-gambling law that applies specifically to the Internet have stumbled in Congress since at least the late 1990s amid a thicket of competing interests: horse racing, dog racing, state lotteries, Indian casinos and anti-gambling crusaders.

Arizona Republican Sen. Jon Kyl is expected to introduce another anti-gambling bill soon. Though the bill will be updated "to reflect the explosive growth of the industry," PartyGaming's upcoming IPO is not a factor, a Kyl spokesman said.
 

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Online casinos like Bodog.com sponsor glitzy Las Vegas conferences, and other payment services like e-gold have stepped in to handle the business that Visa and eBay Inc.'s PayPal are leaving on the table.

Cool to see e-gold mentioned and not some of their crap competition.


Phaedrus
 

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Thank you thank you.

Work+new baby keeping me in overdrive mode.


Phaedrus
 

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Phad...you going to make the RX bash in aug in vegas?
 

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The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in November 2002 that the 1961 Wire Act, which forbids interstate telephone betting, only applies to sports-betting operations


boy does this make me feel great
 

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Did they say what's a sport and what's not a sport? Jay C....Can you spare a few minutes if you see this thread to respond as it relates to the Sport of horse racing. Plus the morals issue.......
 

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Holysmoke said:
The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in November 2002 that the 1961 Wire Act, which forbids interstate telephone betting, only applies to sports-betting operations


boy does this make me feel great
Holy....hence the GRAY area that the KYL bill is trying make illegal...the internet is not a PHONE

at least he admits its legal right now by trying to pass a bill against it
 

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Thw Wire Act was actually written to go after organized crime transmitting horse racing information across state lines, so horse racing is covered.

The languaage of the law refers to using a "wire communications facility." We did not argue that the internet transmissions did not pass through a wire communications facility at some point in time because it really doesn't pass the laugh test. Unless you can set up a system where the signal from your laptop bounces up to a satellite and then offshore without hitting a US hub of some sort, you are going through a wire communication facility.

With respect to the 5th circuit case that rules that the Wire Act did not apply to casino games, the DOJ in the US-Antigua WTO consultations said, "We think the 5th Circuit is wrong and threrefore we don't have to abide by it." I'm not kidding. This was when the parties were trying to find common ground, Antigua's lawyers had said, can't you at least back off on casino games, your own 5th Circuit says the Wire Act does not apply. That was their response. Apparently the government is only bound by legal precedents when it suits them.
 

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Jay C said:
Thw Wire Act was actually written to go after organized crime transmitting horse racing information across state lines, so horse racing is covered.

The languaage of the law refers to using a "wire communications facility." We did not argue that the internet transmissions did not pass through a wire communications facility at some point in time because it really doesn't pass the laugh test. Unless you can set up a system where the signal from your laptop bounces up to a satellite and then offshore without hitting a US hub of some sort, you are going through a wire communication facility.

With respect to the 5th circuit case that rules that the Wire Act did not apply to casino games, the DOJ in the US-Antigua WTO consultations said, "We think the 5th Circuit is wrong and threrefore we don't have to abide by it." I'm not kidding. This was when the parties were trying to find common ground, Antigua's lawyers had said, can't you at least back off on casino games, your own 5th Circuit says the Wire Act does not apply. That was their response. Apparently the government is only bound by legal precedents when it suits them.
Scary to say the least.....
Has any arbitration with the WTO (US and Antigua) started?
 

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They are about to go before an arbitrator who will determine how long the WTO has to comply. The WTO states on their policy that 15 months should be the outside amount of time unless there are serious difficult issues.

I don't know how long it was, they wouldn't tell me, but I assume the US was completely unreasonable about the amount if time they wanted, hence the need for an arbitrator just to set the amount of time.

90% of their compliance is very easy, all they need to do is stop over interpreting their laws, and maybe send out a few retraction letters.
 

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Someone flippantly told me the US timetable on this is Jan 2009, W and his administration don't want to be blamed for having this happen on their watch.

Jay is spot on here. The US has an easy way out. They can go into these negotiations and say "We totally disagree with this ruling, we think its wrong and we aren't going to sanction it. However in the spirit of living up to our free trade agreements we will just cease enforcement actions as long as all activities take place outside US sovereign territory." It would basically accept reality and get them gracefully out of the mess they continue to dig deeper into. In the meantime they can leave up some unspoken dubious threat basically saying its not legal. The difference between illegal and not legal is quite important. It can create all the uncertainty Party Poker is facing and can give many companies pause in dealing with this. Banks and financial institutions could say without legal sanction we won't do business with these offshore firms. There are lots of permutations. And of course the US could just get on with it and regulate it and take the money.
 

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May I refer everyone to the affadavit in support of my 2255 motion (denied of course) to the DOJ's position prior to my prosecution. John Russell was the DOJ spokesperson for the criminal division in Washington DC. Paragraphs 47-52 tell it all. How hard would it be for them to go back to that policy just for Antiguan companies? Not very.

47. Prior to March 1998, the United States Department of Justice had publicly maintained that establishing an offshore gaming enterprise such as WSE would not subject one to federal prosecution. As early as October 1995, Department of Justice spokesman John Russell was quoted in a published news article concerning online gaming – including sports betting – as stating, “If the casinos are outside the United States, there’s not a thing we can do about it except prevail upon the host government.” Todd Copilevitz, “Betting on the Net – Old Vice, New Form: Casinos Beckon Via Home Computers,” Dallas Morning News (Oct. 22, 1995), at 1A. Exhibit 21.

48. Mr. Russell went on to state: “If you look in the federal penitentiaries you’re not going to find anyone doing time for violating gambling statutes. . . . It’s not that vexing a problem.” Id.

49. Similarly, in a 1997 article concerning online gaming, Mr. Russell was quoted as “unequivocally” stating with respect to overseas online gaming operators, “We can’t touch them.” Patrick Mitchell, “Online Gambling Beyond Justice Department Control,” Computer Shopper (May 1, 1997), at 101. Exhibit 22.

50. Consistent with these statements, Mr. Russell also was quoted in a January 1998 New York Times article as stating that, as far as offshore online sports betting and casinos are concerned, “We have no jurisdiction. . . . The offense has not been made on U.S. soil.” Brett Pulley, “With Technology, Island Bookies Skirt U.S. Law,” New York Times (January 31, 1998). Exhibit 23.

51. Similarly, in January of 1998, Mr. Russell was quoted in another prominent publication as stating, “International Internet gambling? We can’t do anything about it. That’s the bottom line.” Steven Crist, “All Bets Are Off,” Sports Illustrated (Jan. 26, 1998), at 85. Exhibit 24.

52. In short, prior to March 1998, it appears that the Department of Justice simply was not prosecuting operators of offshore sports betting companies.
 

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