College WS Thursday - ASU vs. Florida GAME 2 - 7PM EST

Arizona State Sun Devils vs. Florida Gators
Jason Urquidez or Zechery Zinocola vs. RH Junior Alan Horne

General Impression
Elimination game today suddenly, and the Sun Devils have battled after losing game 1 of the CWS to win every game since, and the light is at the end of the tunnel. They will now be playing their 3rd game in as many days. ASU's record against teams that at least made the field of 64 postseason, is 6-5 on the 3rd game of 3 days straight of games. It's these types of games where Florida's grueling SEC schedule should show. I felt ASU was the weakest team in this field behind Oregon State. Mainly because of their lack of pitching depth. And head coach Pat Murphy is showing it. He's yet again trying to force his ace on the mound, this time on 1 day rest, to pitch for the 3rd time in 5 games. This ace isn't a gimmick pitcher like Averill. Averill got away with going on 2 days rest because he throws changeups anyway, so the fact that he lost zip and movement on his fastball didn't matter because he throws so many changeups. But Urquidez doesn't throw 83% changeups. He goes after you with his fastball, and his fastball isn't over-powering as it is, but he won't have enough zip on it on 1 day rest. But they are playing hot baseball right now, and it's tough to bet against that.

ASU's Pitcher
ASU is trying to start ace Jason Urquidez, once again trying to avoid going to their 3rd starter. In their 5th Omaha game, they will try to throw Urquidez for a 3rd time. Urquidez is a bit different from Averill. Averill is a soft-lefty 83% changeup thrower, and although on a changeup the grip is what slows the pitch down, it does have considerably less amount of stress on the arm, and he was on 2 day's rest. Urquidez is a fastball throwing righty, and the fastball is the most violent action a arm can take. He is only on 1 day rest after throwing 73 pitches. Because he threw 73 pitches, there is the chance he could be available to go 4-5 innings, and then they can hand it over to Bresnehan, Borders, and Zenicola. I wouldn't expect that extra zip on Urquidez's fastball that allows him to be so effective. His ball should be flat, and the Gators have feasted on hard throwing righties this post-season with their aggressive at-bats. It took a soft-allchangeups lefty to get them out of rhytmn yesterday.

Florida's Pitcher
Florida starts their ace and go-to guy, former 1st rounder Alan Horne. Horne was 93-94 in game 1 of his Gators win over Tennessee in game 1, and he was dominant striking out 5 of the first 6 batters he faced. Horne is on 5 days rest, and should be ready to go with a full Florida bullpen behind him including All-American reliever Connor Falkenbach and dominant side-winder Darren O'Day.

ASU's advantage
Momentum. This team is playing baseball and just finding ways to win. They beat Florida yesterday and that is a great thing to know coming into this game. ASU is 3-0 all-time vs. Florida, all of those games being post-season or CWS games. The team that has come back from the loser's bracket to defeat the winners bracket teams, wins this next game nearly 90% of the time. However, I'm not a big believer in using stats from years ago to determine what these two teams with tese different players and coaches and situations will do in their games. But it is a stat none-the-less. The other ASU advantage is their left-handed hitting lineup vs. Florida's right-handed pitching staff. The Gators don't have any effective lefties in the bullpen, and they start a righty. In fact, the Gators bullpen studs are side-winding righties. All-American ace Connor Falkenbach is dominant of righties on the year, but lefties bat almost .100 points higher. Sidewinder O'Day had no problems dominating Nebraska's left-handed lineup and pinch hitters in his 4.3 IP 3 hit 0 runs performance. ASU is just playing great baseball with their backs against the wall.

Florida's Advantage
While ASU went ace (co-ace) #2 Averill vs. Florida's #3, today Florida might be able to do the same in return. Ace Alan Horne for Florida who runs his fastball up to 95, vs. a very tired ace Urquidez, or Arizona State's bullpen stud will be in a starting role, Zinicola. No matter what age you are, playing 5 games in 7 days is absolutely draining. I think Florida came out flat yesterday from their lay-off, didnt make any adjustments, stayed off balance and were unable to recover late. Today, they're back in the saddle and back facing the types of pitchers that they have crushed all post-season: hard throwing righties. In this game, they'll get a tired Urquidez with no zip on his fastball. I'm the first to lineup and bet on Urquidez, especially at an underdog price, but not on 1 day rest and the way this Gator team has ripped right handers. Florida still is the fresher team in this one, and any momentum ASU has can be eliminated with a couple of Gator hits.

Bottom Line
Bottom line is there is no clear-cut advantage in this game, although I think the line has value for Florida. Florida is still more well-rested, they have their ace on the mound on 5 days rest, they have the hitting team that feasts of righties, ASU is throwing their ace for the 3rd time in 5 games, and 1 day rest, which is unheard of, and there is a reason for that. But ASU has the momentum(and you can't really cap momentum or overvalue it like Nebraska home-field because it goes out the window with 1 Gator HR or 1 Gator lead), they have the left-handed hitting lineup against the Florida starter and bullpen. I think this is a game that could go back and forth. I think the Gators might give up a run in the 1st. I think their bats will put up 4 in the next few innings, and ASU will chip 1 or 2 away. And then Florida will add one and it will come down to can Florida's righthanded bullpen shut down ASU's tired left handed bats to preserve the win? In every game I've laid off in this CWS, you've seen some dramatics and extra inning back and forthers. I think you'll get another close game in this one, with no clear advantage to either team, and I'm not interested in a tie game in the 8th and 9th and relying on a ball getting lost in the sun or some weird play to determine if I win or lose money.

My Line

Florida -180

Current Line

Florida -150

My Play

NO PLAY

Action Junkies Must Have Play

ASU +135

For the record, I think Florida wins this game 6 times out of 10. I think they are the better team. I like the situation they are in with their ace on 5 days rest vs. a tired ASU staff. ASU hasn't thrown a 3rd starter for a reason, they DO NOT want to go to their 3rd starter. That has to catch up with them eventually and expose them. In my mind, there is no way I can lay money on a team that has no answer at pitching for this game against the way these Gator bats have hit right handed fastballs and their ace. Don't overvalue momentum or stats from years ago that have nothing to do with the players and coaches on these teams the way people overvalue Nebraska's home field advantage. The thing that is keeping me off the Gators is their right handed staff vs. the ASU left handed hitting lineup. In games that are too close to call, I love taking the underdog. But at +135, there isn't enough value in them for me like there was when they were +200 and +180.


We will have a play for the Championship series.

Best of luck.

Good write-up.



If your line is Flordia -180 and the real line is Flordia -150. Thats a 30 cent difference. Should that not be enough value in your mind to make a Flordia pick?

since either 2001 or 2002 (think 2002) So Carolina is 8-6 in omaha

EVERY OTHER SEC team is 7-16 and many of those 7 wins came in games where 2 SEC teams played

the last few years the SEC has been nothing but a FRAUD in Omaha - as i have stated - and been killed for

ASU has more heart than florida

ASU shouldn't win this game - but they shouldn't have won the last 2 games, too

knowing what i do about the GAG jobs the SEC pulls when they play someone out of conference that can play ball - as opposed to the cream puffs they normally play (and most of those games are at home - too) look ONCE AGAIN for ANOTHER SEC CHOKE here - history shows that will be the case

winkyduck said:

since either 2001 or 2002 (think 2002) So Carolina is 8-6 in omaha

EVERY OTHER SEC team is 7-16 and many of those 7 wins came in games where 2 SEC teams played

the last few years the SEC has been nothing but a FRAUD in Omaha - as i have stated - and been killed for

ASU has more heart than florida

ASU shouldn't win this game - but they shouldn't have won the last 2 games, too

knowing what i do about the GAG jobs the SEC pulls when they play someone out of conference that can play ball - as opposed to the cream puffs they normally play (and most of those games are at home - too) look ONCE AGAIN for ANOTHER SEC CHOKE here - history shows that will be the case

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Yes sir. I agree 100%. Add to the fact that Flordia is the weakest SEC champ in over 20 years.

Yep, but I'm not. Sometimes you have great value, but sometimes you just don't want to be on the juice side of a close game. I really just want to sit back and watch this game and just enjoy it without a pubble of sweat on the couch next to me.

With the way these CWS games are going, and the way this one scripts out, with Florida pounding these tired pitchers, but their bullpen being all sidewinder righties facing a lefty lineup, I can see ASU making a late comeback. I really don't want to lay more juice again against this ASU team. Yesterday we saw Texas 1st baseman lose a ball in the sun, we saw a Florida RF, 2B and 1B lose the ball in the sun. We're seeing late comebacks, score changes, up and down games. It would really surprise me to see this game be anything but close going to the late innings, and in those situations, I love playing the dog, even though I think Florida should win this game.

winkyduck said:

since either 2001 or 2002 (think 2002) So Carolina is 8-6 in omaha

EVERY OTHER SEC team is 7-16 and many of those 7 wins came in games where 2 SEC teams played

the last few years the SEC has been nothing but a FRAUD in Omaha - as i have stated - and been killed for

ASU has more heart than florida

ASU shouldn't win this game - but they shouldn't have won the last 2 games, too

knowing what i do about the GAG jobs the SEC pulls when they play someone out of conference that can play ball - as opposed to the cream puffs they normally play (and most of those games are at home - too) look ONCE AGAIN for ANOTHER SEC CHOKE here - history shows that will be the case

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Never disagreed with you more in my life. Stay tuned.

Boxslayer32 said:

Yep, but I'm not. Sometimes you have great value, but sometimes you just don't want to be on the juice side of a close game. I really just want to sit back and watch this game and just enjoy it without a pubble of sweat on the couch next to me.

With the way these CWS games are going, and the way this one scripts out, with Florida pounding these tired pitchers, but their bullpen being all sidewinder righties facing a lefty lineup, I can see ASU making a late comeback. I really don't want to lay more juice again against this ASU team. Yesterday we saw Texas 1st baseman lose a ball in the sun, we saw a Florida RF, 2B and 1B lose the ball in the sun. We're seeing late comebacks, score changes, up and down games. It would really surprise me to see this game be anything but close going to the late innings, and in those situations, I love playing the dog, even though I think Florida should win this game.

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Understood. In MLB games I see alot of value all the time in -150+ games but I tend to pass them up unless I can find another game with the same type value on the card where I can parley the 2 heavy favs. I understand fully what you are saying.

winkyduck said:

since either 2001 or 2002 (think 2002) So Carolina is 8-6 in omaha

EVERY OTHER SEC team is 7-16 and many of those 7 wins came in games where 2 SEC teams played

the last few years the SEC has been nothing but a FRAUD in Omaha - as i have stated - and been killed for

ASU has more heart than florida

ASU shouldn't win this game - but they shouldn't have won the last 2 games, too

knowing what i do about the GAG jobs the SEC pulls when they play someone out of conference that can play ball - as opposed to the cream puffs they normally play (and most of those games are at home - too) look ONCE AGAIN for ANOTHER SEC CHOKE here - history shows that will be the case

Click to expand...

Not trying to show up Boxslayer, I respect Slayer greatly for his opionions and I agree with Rebs nice comments about Boxslayer that he made yesterday. With that being said I agree with you 100%.

SEC IN THE COLLEGE WORLD SERIES

Since 1990, the Southeastern Conference has been the most successful baseball conference in the country. The SEC has won six of the last 15 NCAA titles (1990, 1991, 1993, 1996, 1997 and 2000) and has put more teams in the College World Series than any conference in the country. Take a look at the SEC's success in the last 15 years:


CONFERENCE RECORDS IN THE COLLEGE WORLD SERIES
Since 1990 (Using current conference alignments)

Conference App. Games W-L Pct.
SEC 30 106 56-50 .528
Pacific 10 20 70 37-33 .529
Big 12 20 56 23-33 .411
Atlantic Coast14 47 18-28 .391
Big West 12 45 26-19 .578
Independents 10 36 21-15 .583
Missouri Valley 6 18 8-10 .444
Western Athletic 5 16 7-9 .438
Southern 2 5 1-4 .200
West Coast 1 4 4-0 1.000
Sun Belt 1 4 2-2 .500
Big East 1 3 1-2 .333





*Not counting games against each other, the SEC has posted a 44-37 record in the College World Series since 1990, a 54.3 winning percentage.
*Since 1990, an SEC team has played in 93 of the 208 games in the College World Series, an amazing 45 percent of games. SEC teams played in 12 of the 15 games of the 2004 College World Series.
*The SEC has sent nine of its 12 schools to the College World Series since 1990. The Big 12 and the Pac-10 are next with five each.
*The SEC has played 21 games in the "Final Four" of the College World Series since 1990, an average of 1.5 per year.
*NINE SEC programs have made it to Omaha at least twice in that time period. That shows consistency and depth.



Just using common sense, it's obvious that if there is only 1 National Champion and the SEC has all of these schools constantly in the CWS, isn't it just common sense that they will LOSE games since there can only be 1 National Champion?
Even with that common sense information, the SEC has still posted a 54.3 winning percentage against non-conference teams in Omaha since 1990.

If you start taking out South Carolina, etc etc, well let's go ahead and take out Texas from the Big 12 and see their record, and let's take Stanford out of the Pac-10 and see their record.

You can't just take teams out from their conferences.

So granted, sometimes you have the Stanford's and the Texas' which are powerhouses every year, facing an SEC team like Arkansas that made it to Omaha out of nowhere because the SEC is so deep and it might not be a ball game and thats how the SEC gets some of its losses. To call the SEC overrated because of that is ridiculous.

But this is ASU playing today, not Stanford or Texas. While ASU has a storied baseball tradition, people had doubts if they would even make it out of their own regional. They've obviously proved some people wrong but they just got hot at the right time.

Its been 5 years since the year 2000. If you would have asked me back then my answer would be totally different. The bat rule has affected the SEC more than any other conference in the country. Most of your stats support your case from the years 1990 till 2000. There has been a big dropoff since then.

choptalk said:

Understood. In MLB games I see alot of value all the time in -150+ games but I tend to pass them up unless I can find another game with the same type value on the card where I can parley the 2 heavy favs. I understand fully what you are saying.

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I know you would understand about that, you taught me a lot of things for capping MLB.

I understand people like to have action on a game because its a big game its on ESPN, they'll be able to watch it, but if there was a full card, I wouldn't touch it.

Florida's line has value, and they have big time advantages in this game starting with the way they've hit righthanded pitching all the way down to their ace is starting for them who is 9-0 in his last 10 appearances or something ridiculous. He's the hottest pitcher in the country. All the way down to the fact that ASU is dead tired and starting a guy potentially on 1 day rest. If they opt not to start Urquidez and they start Zinicola

Zinicola - prototypical soph. hard throwing right hander that the Gators have torched this postseason..on top of that....

*26 appearances only 8 starts
*5.69 ERA
*6.00 ERA in conference games
*Control Problems and free passes 38 walks and 16 Hit batters in 60+ IP, almost 1 free pass an inning..that aint good against Florida offense
*6 Long balls in 60+ IP, so almost 1 per game
*55 hits in 60+ IP, or almost 1 hit per inning

So, he walks 1 batter an inning, gives up 1 hit per inning, and gives up 1 long ball per game, and that's against any competition, not just conference.


But ASU has the leftyhitting-on righty hitting matchups. So if Horne is off, they may be able to score with Florida. They're hot, they're gutsy, they have some heart. All of these CWS games have been close.
Although it really wouldn't surprise me at all to see Florida win this game 14-5, I really think it's going to be close.

Most Likely Outcomes IMO
Florida 8 ASU 5 -Most Likely
ASU 7 Florida 6 - 2nd
Florida 14 ASU 5 - 3rd
ASU 6 Florida 3 - 4th

Hope some of that extra info helps.

choptalk said:

Its been 5 years since the year 2000. If you would have asked me back then my answer would be totally different. The bat rule has affected the SEC more than any other conference in the country. Most of your stats support your case from the years 1990 till 2000. There has been a big dropoff since then.

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5 years since they won a National Title. That means the SEC didnt have the best team in the country then. I never claimed the SEC had the best team in the country, or a powerhouse team year in and year out. If the SEC had a Texas or a Stanford, the stats would be ridiculous. Those 1 or 2 powerhouse schools hold the weight for the other conferences.

In the past 5 years though, the SEC has placed more teams in the field of 64 then ever before. So again more depth in their conference, and more chances for them to lose.

In 2000 they placed 8 teams in the field of 64. In 2001, 9. etc etc etc.

So, while they were placing 5,6, and 7 teams in the field of 64 before 2000, they have fielded more teams, which like I said again, just common sense, they are going to have more losses since only 8 teams can go to Omaha and only 1 team can be National champion.

While people like Winky who live on the west coast, just hate that more of their teams dont get regional bids, they look to point the finger as to why? They feel the reason is the SEC. While I agree the West Coast doesnt place enough teams in regionals and that needs to be addressed, to start ripping into the SEC for any flaw you can find whatsoever is another story.

I'd like to see the committee start decreasing the size of the field actually. Buffalo Bison, Quinniapac, Harvard, Winthrop, College of Charleston, these teams have absolutely no chance.

They need to start shortening the field and just start getting after some super regionals, or start eliminating smaller schools with no chance and put some more deserving west coast teams in. But the SEC isnt the problem.

to me this is the problem

MOST SEC teams play "Gorilla Ball" - play for the 3- run homer

MOST teams that the SEC faces in Omaha - DO NOT! the problem is when "Small Ball" faces "Goriall Ball" - Small Ball almost always wins because Small Ball concentrates on fundamentals while Gorilla Ball is set up to overcome them

The last few years there has been NOTHING MORE COMICAL than watching Fullerton take on SEC teams. Fullerton plays Samll Ball better than just about anyone and when we lay down a bunt - teams like LSU and So Carolina have NO CLUE what to do since they rarely see it during the season and many times that bunt that was intended to be a sacrifice ends up being thrown down the RF line or misplayed by the 3B. conversely - when the SEC team tries to play small ball it blows up in their face(s).

In MOST sports the SEC loves to brag about what great teams they have - B.S.

the SEC plays CUPCAKES in most non-conf games - gets a high RPI/Ranking - and thus when they play their own - you have 2 high ranked teams playing each other so the even the loser doesn't drop much in the polls

that is until they play outside the conference and play teams with different styles - and that is where the comedy - and usually LOSSES - begins

the last 5-ish years you WILL NOT find a conference more OVERRATED than the SEC in just about EVERY SPORT

the SEC thinks they are GOD and during the regular season they are - for the reasons i stated above

but come post-season - they usually make very short stays and are NOWHERE to be found when they final teams are playing for the title

and one last comment - as for the SEC teams getting more post-season bids - agree - but there is a HUGE difference between what they are GIVEN and what they EARN

the SEC has powerful people on selection committee's and thus get more post-season bids then they deserve. every year the SEC gets more babseball bids then they deserve - get a lot of regionals to host - and SR's - and get few times in omaha.

NO ONE will EVER convince me Auburn is better this season the Cal Poly SLO - but auburn got in for they are an SEC team and SLO is a Big West team - yet play a 3-game series on a neutral field between these 2 and i would BET MY LIFE on SLO winning - probably in 2

but because the west gets snubbed every year - SLO stayed home - and auburn went - even though it should have been Vice Versa and as long as Skip Bertman is giving BLOW JOBS to the selection committee nothing will ever change in the N*SEC*AA!

winkyduck said:

to me this is the problem

MOST SEC teams play "Gorilla Ball" - play for the 3- run homer

MOST teams that the SEC faces in Omaha - DO NOT! the problem is when "Small Ball" faces "Goriall Ball" - Small Ball almost always wins because Small Ball concentrates on fundamentals while Gorilla Ball is set up to overcome them

The last few years there has been NOTHING MORE COMICAL than watching Fullerton take on SEC teams. Fullerton plays Samll Ball better than just about anyone and when we lay down a bunt - teams like LSU and So Carolina have NO CLUE what to do since they rarely see it during the season and many times that bunt that was intended to be a sacrifice ends up being thrown down the RF line or misplayed by the 3B. conversely - when the SEC team tries to play small ball it blows up in their face(s).

In MOST sports the SEC loves to brag about what great teams they have - B.S.

the SEC plays CUPCAKES in most non-conf games - gets a high RPI/Ranking - and thus when they play their own - you have 2 high ranked teams playing each other so the even the loser doesn't drop much in the polls

that is until they play outside the conference and play teams with different styles - and that is where the comedy - and usually LOSSES - begins

the last 5-ish years you WILL NOT find a conference more OVERRATED than the SEC in just about EVERY SPORT

the SEC thinks they are GOD and during the regular season they are - for the reasons i stated above

but come post-season - they usually make very short stays and are NOWHERE to be found when they final teams are playing for the title

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This is exactly why I said the bat rule has affected the SEC more than any other conference. The SEC has only 1 national championship since the rule was put in place. I will never forget the last season LSU had the year before the change which was the reason for the new rule was put in the first place. LSU had a .287 team batting average. But they hit an unbelievable 189 homeruns with Brandon Larson, Todd Walker, Eddie Furness etc.... With the new rules you cant do that anymore. The SEC has always been short on fundamental baseball. The Pac-10 and the Big 12 has always played the game the way it was meant to be played. Can you name 1 pitcher who has ever come out of the SEC who really had a great MLB career? The answer so no. I can name you all kinds of hitters. Albert Belle, Will Clark, , R Palmerio. The list is endless of great hitters. The SEC needs to adjust to the rules or they will always get beat by the Rices, CSFullertons of the world.

In a side note. I love talking college bases with you 2 guys. I love both of your knowledge of the game. I respect both of your insights. Good luck guys!!
Lets enjoy this great world series.

Hey Box, where did you play your college ball? I think a read somewhere that you played baseball on the college level.

winkyduck said:

to me this is the problem

MOST SEC teams play "Gorilla Ball" - play for the 3- run homer

MOST teams that the SEC faces in Omaha - DO NOT! the problem is when "Small Ball" faces "Goriall Ball" - Small Ball almost always wins because Small Ball concentrates on fundamentals while Gorilla Ball is set up to overcome them

The last few years there has been NOTHING MORE COMICAL than watching Fullerton take on SEC teams. Fullerton plays Samll Ball better than just about anyone and when we lay down a bunt - teams like LSU and So Carolina have NO CLUE what to do since they rarely see it during the season and many times that bunt that was intended to be a sacrifice ends up being thrown down the RF line or misplayed by the 3B. conversely - when the SEC team tries to play small ball it blows up in their face(s).

In MOST sports the SEC loves to brag about what great teams they have - B.S.

the SEC plays CUPCAKES in most non-conf games - gets a high RPI/Ranking - and thus when they play their own - you have 2 high ranked teams playing each other so the even the loser doesn't drop much in the polls

that is until they play outside the conference and play teams with different styles - and that is where the comedy - and usually LOSSES - begins

the last 5-ish years you WILL NOT find a conference more OVERRATED than the SEC in just about EVERY SPORT

the SEC thinks they are GOD and during the regular season they are - for the reasons i stated above

but come post-season - they usually make very short stays and are NOWHERE to be found when they final teams are playing for the title

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Im fighting a losing battle. I'm arguing against a West Coaster who is bitter more teams of his dont get accepted to regionals and youre willing to try to bring anyone else down with you. I agree there is a west coast bias, but I have a different way of trying to prove it. I'd focus more on saying positive things about your conference, but instead you choose to try to rip other conferences down instead. So you choose the SEC, because anyone who is anyone in sports with a good sports knowledge agrees and KNOWS the SEC is the dominant conference. So they are the target.

Your gorilla ball statement is ridiculous. Just because LSU was known as one of the greatest hitting teams ever and their defense was poor in the years they won national titles, you are stereotyping the rest of the conference and I wont even get into that.

It was COMICAL that Fullerton won because Fullerton WAS BETTER. They are one of the best schools in the history of college baseball. To say because they beat an SEC team and therefore the SEC is overrated and sucks when Fullerton is a powerhouse is stupid. Fullerton would of kicked anyones ass, and they did, most years. That doesnt mean a certain conference is overrated.

The SEC teams play CUPCAKES because there is so much parity in the SEC and the SEC has such a grueling schedule. While the PAC-10 only has 10 conference teams, and 9 conference weekends, and most of those weekends are against teams that are bottom feeders, the SEC has more teams, more conference weekends, and no bottom feeders. Every weekend is tough.

The SEC has more teams in it's conference than most conferences so they play more quality games, so the other conferences have to schedule out of conference weekend series with powerhouses or their RPI's will suck because their conferences suck at the bottom.

Like I said, and it's a fact not opinion...

NINE SEC programs have made it to Omaha at least twice since 1990. That shows consistency and depth.
It wasn't 9 SEC teams making it one time and have a Cinderella year and get lucky. No no, TWICE. No fluke.

That means potentially, the SEC has 9 teams every year with a chance to go to OMAHA, and they have to play 9 SEC teams in weekend series that could be Omaha teams during the regular season.

Tell me any other conference that has sent 6 teams to Omaha TWICE a piece since 1990 and you may start to argue, but it would still be a losing argument, because well 9 is greater than 6.
Tell me another conference that plays 9 potential Omaha teams on their regular season schedule IN CONFERENCE, and thats why you have to schedule cupcakes. The SEC teams were coming out of conference kicking each others asses then scheduling Texas, Long Beach and Miami and they were coming away with a tough ass series every weekend and getting burned out with 30-20 records. By the way, Florida's non-conference schedule always consists of Miami and FSU + a full SEC schedule. What a cupcake schedule. Most SEC teams schedules are ranked top 20 year in and year out. Your cupcake schedule holds no weight.

While your views are opinionated, my views are shared by anyone that is anyone in college sports. The chairman of the committee that selects the field is an FSU alumni, with no affiliation with the SEC. Probably hates the SEC in fact. You can talk about Skip Bertman BJs all you want, but the SEC has proved that they are so good they need 9 teams in on a year in year out basis, and is finally approved and accepted by an FSU alumni.

This is a recurring cycle. Every few years the SEC doesnt have a dominant team that just blows you away with a 50-4 record and one conference will field 1 more team than the SEC in Omaha and their will be all these rumblings that the SEC sucks and theyre always overrated. Then the next year, it will go right back to normal and all the mumblings will stop. This is a down year for the SEC, and they are 25% of Omaha and sent 9 teams to regionals. Yeah, a DOWN YEAR. I dont even want to see a down year for the Pac-10. Every single SEC team that was awarded a regional played in the championship of their regionals against the regional host. And this is a down year. What a bad conference.

This is a recurring cycle.

Football? I'm not even going to get involved. LSU was co National champs last year and this year Auburn went undefeated and many people feel they should have been in the title game. I'm not getting into the rest. Like I said, I'm fighting a losing battle.

choptalk said:

This is exactly why I said the bat rule has affected the SEC more than any other conference. The SEC has only 1 national championship since the rule was put in place. I will never forget the last season LSU had the year before the change which was the reason for the new rule was put in the first place. LSU had a .287 team batting average. But they hit an unbelievable 189 homeruns with Brandon Larson, Todd Walker, Eddie Furness etc.... With the new rules you cant do that anymore. The SEC has always been short on fundamental baseball. The Pac-10 and the Big 12 has always played the game the way it was meant to be played. Can you name 1 pitcher who has ever come out of the SEC who really had a great MLB career? The answer so no. I can name you all kinds of hitters. Albert Belle, Will Clark, , R Palmerio. The list is endless of great hitters. The SEC needs to adjust to the rules or they will always get beat by the Rices, CSFullertons of the world.

In a side note. I love talking college bases with you 2 guys. I love both of your knowledge of the game. I respect both of your insights. Good luck guys!!
Lets enjoy this great world series.

Hey Box, where did you play your college ball? I think a read somewhere that you played baseball on the college level.

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Florida. So I know first hand what a bitch it was to get up every single weekend and face some SEC squad that is in 11th place and they sweep your ass. It's a tough, tough, tough grueling schedule.

You keep saying LSU got effected by the bat rule the most, but I think you're missing one major variable. How bout the fact that SKIP BERTMAN, possibly the greatest coach in NCAA history retired. That effects recruiting a shit load.

On a side note, when you have Rafael Palmeiro, Will Clark, Todd Helton, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

Do you really want to play small ball? Is that how you win games with those guys?

Coaches for the most part have their own philosophies. Like Augie Garrido will always be a small ball coach, regardless of players, and he coaches it better than anyone. But at the same time, coaches will play with what they have. Cal State Fullerton might have recruited guys in high school that they thought would project into power guys, and they never did. So they had no choice but to play small ball. Sometimes failure to recruit or players pan out, turns into something positive.

I love talking baseball too. You know me Chop. I'm usually in the middle of these fun debates. Just want to make sure nothing comes off the wrong way, in a nasty negative tone.

Boxslayer32 said:

The SEC teams play CUPCAKES because there is so much parity in the SEC and the SEC has such a grueling schedule. While the PAC-10 only has 10 conference teams, and 9 conference weekends, and most of those weekends are against teams that are bottom feeders, the SEC has more teams, more conference weekends, and no bottom feeders. Every weekend is tough.

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there are planes that fly from SEC country to the west coast - a fact the SEC somehow missed and doesn't seem to get

Fullerton (and other quality west coast schools) thoughts on their sked is basically: ANYONE, ANYTIME ANYWHERE

this season fullerton went to #1 Omaha seed Tulane and won 2 of 3. fullerton baseball isn't afriad to fly anywhere and play quality teams

tell me the LAST TIME ANY SEC school boarded a plane to fly to the west coast to play a 3-game series? if it happened - it was sooooooooo long ago it is irrelevant. the fact is - the SEC DUCKS non-conf school further than about 1 hour plane flight at most - and even that is pushing it

and as for LSU in football - let's look at it this way

LSU beat an OU team 21-7 in what basically amounted to a home game - agree? the game was never in doubt - but OU was never out of it

USC KICKED THE CRAP out of a BETTER OU team (1 w/adrian peterson) on a NEUTRAL field 55-19 in a game that wasn't even that close and woul dhave been a LOT worse had USC not called off the dogs about 5 minutes into 3Q

so now we have an SEC team playing a "home game" against an inferior team and only winning by 2 TDS and a Pac-10 team playing a neutral field game against the same opponent - but a BETTER version of that opponent and the result looked like USC was playing 11-on-8 and if USC did to a human being what they did to OU - EVERY SINGLE USC player would be serving life in prison sentences w/o any chance for parole - assuming they didn't get the death penalty - for they put a WORLD CLASS BEAT DOWN on OU - something LS-what never did

look - the SEC HAD its day - but the last 5 years has NOT been the SEC's "day"

Boxslayer32 said:

Cal State Fullerton might have recruited guys in high school that they thought would project into power guys, and they never did. So they had no choice but to play small ball. Sometimes failure to recruit or players pan out, turns into something positive.

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do any of you have any clue what our OVERALL baseball budget is? let's just say if an SEC school had the same budget we do - not only would they never win a CWS but they would have a tough time making a SR and tough time playing even .500 ball

give fullerton the budget of an SEC school - and they will cancel the CWS every season and just send the plaque to Fullerton - because that is where it would end up

and for those who are good at geography - get out a map of Fullerton. then go look at our roster and pinpoint where each player's hometown is. i promise you about 75% of the players are within a 50-mile radius of campus - and most probably even closer than that.

Mark Kotsay is from Santa Fe Springs - about 20 miles away. Phil Nevin is from Placentia - the next city over from Fullerton. Tim Wallach is from nearby Anaheim (I think) - get the point. these guys are raised on Titan baseball so when it comes time to decide where to go to school - the fact we only have 11.7 scholarships helps - because these players live nearby. and unlike schools who have football - and can have the guy who plays both FB and BB on a FB scholarship - thereby opening up more of the BB scholarship - fullerton doesn't have FB and can't do this. same with Long Beach

Oklahoma is always overrated so you cant really say anything about them losing to LSU in a close game, and they didnt deserve to be playing against USC anyhow. USC was also overrated, if they played any florida team as in FSU, UF, or MIAMI they would be beaten easily, and if they had a schedule that any SEC team played they would be losing alot more. But when you play teams like stanford and arizona every week they really dont have to worry about losing many games. SEC squads go up against great teams every week and its always a tough matchup. You have no grounds for argument here

Football and baseball is apples and oranges. This is a baseball thread. I will give all you west coasters your due when it comes to baseball, but no one can compete with the SEC when it comes to football. The Pac-10 is very top heavy. I went to the Southern Miss/ Cal game at the end of the year and was not impressed one bit with the Pac-10s so called 2nd best team. USC had a great game against OU. But I dont think they are 40 points better than OU in the least. USC had many close calls in what I deam a very week scedule compared to a typical SEC team. Auburn would have given USC hell. OU had to be the most overated team in the country last season.