Roulette Scam? No, its LEGAL

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Ritz phone gang can keep £1.3m roulette winnings
By Ben Hoyle
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD height=5> </TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>CASINOS across Britain were reviewing their security last night after three gamblers who used a mobile phone to win more than a £1 million at the Ritz were allowed to keep their takings.



A device in the phone allegedly enabled them to predict the outcome of every spin of a roulette wheel. But Scotland Yard has decided that there is no ground to prosecute the gamblers and refunded them the “significant” quantity of cash which officers seized after their arrest. The group, described as a “chic and beautiful” Hungarian woman, 32, and two “elegant” Serbian men, aged 33 and 38, had been on police bail for nine months but are free to leave the country.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0 VALIGN="TOP"><TBODY><TR><TD id=mpuHeader name="mpuHeader"></TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=right><SCRIPT type=text/javascript>NI_MPU('middle');</SCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>A Scotland Yard spokesman said last night: “They have been informed that no further action will be taken and that the inquiry has ended.”

The three were arrested in March this year after the Ritz casino management reviewed CCTV footage and called in police. They had won £1.3 million over two nights at the popular haunt for Arab princes and international playboys.

On their first night they took home £100,000. The following evening they returned and won £1.2 million. They were handed £300,000 in cash and a cheque for £900,000. They were alleged to have had a laser scanner inside a mobile phone linked to a microcomputer. The scanner measured the speed of the roulette ball as the croupier released it, identified where it fell and measured the declining orbit of the wheel.

The data was beamed to the microcomputer, which ran through thousands of possible outcomes to forecast which section numbers the ball would land on. This data was flashed on to the screen of the phone just before the wheel made its third spin, by which time all bets must be placed. Having reduced their odds of winning from 37-1 to 6-1, the trio placed bets on all six numbers in the section where the ball would end up. Legal sources said that the gamblers had not broken any law because their scanner did not interfere with the ball or the roulette wheel.

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THis story is from Dec 6th 2004

:monsters- :monsters- :monsters-

Interesting, but a lot of vagueness and gobbledy gook. how exactly does this phone measure where the ball is going to fall in time for bets to be made on the right numbers? sounds like quite the device

Was the basis for part of a Las Vegas episode earlier in the season.

tooran said:

Interesting, but a lot of vagueness and gobbledy gook

Click to expand...

"The scanner measured the speed of the roulette ball as the croupier released it, identified where it fell and measured the declining orbit of the wheel."

The speed of the ball determines how long it will take to fall off the track and hence identify the position. The wheel data will then determine the number on the wheel at the fall off position. The Las Vegas show had a microwave link to the computer which a confederate had across the table. The aim is to bet a sector of the wheel since the ball bounces around somewhat.

I have been told that modern wheels have a sufficient number of frets and shallow number positions to randomize the ball even after it drops off the track. I do not know whether this is true.

This group simply used an updated technology for a well known method of winning at roulette. This would be illegal in Nevada because of the "device" rule.

i don't buy it....

There is something wrong with that story. I haven't played a lot of Roulette...but can you place a bet after the ball is set rolling round the wheel? I thought you couldn't.........hmmmmmm. Something sounds awfully odd about that..

I will say one thing if you can set bets out after the ball is set spinning round then you could have a machine determine within a few spots what will come up using velocities of ball and wheel, I'll grant that..... so you'd say, ok the computer (a good fast one, I'm sure) determines that the ball will fall within this range of values....place your bets on these values (maybe six or seven) and wala...your odds are great!! You put out eight units (one on each of the likely results) and win what would it be?.....thirty five units paid? Something along those lines... I can see it. I believe that. There is no computer that can determine the exact number (yet) but I believe that a good scanning machine that can show the offsite computer velocities and relation of ball to numbers in mid-spin would give the computer the ability to determine within a smallish range.

So, yes...eight units spent to receive 35 unit payout each and every spin....I can see that... Pretty DAMN cool stuff. Easily stopped though. The rule could change to NO bets allowed once the spin starts..... tulsa

Tulsa said:

There is something wrong with that story. I haven't played a lot of Roulette...but can you place a bet after the ball is set rolling round the wheel? I thought you couldn't.........hmmmmmm. Something sounds awfully odd about that..

Click to expand...

They do allow bets to a point after the ball has entered the wheel. Not quite sure of the rules where they played, but most casinos have strict policies assumed upon entry against the use of electronic devices and aids (otherwise we'd all be sitting at various tables using laptops etc. Only exception seems to be that little cheat card for BJ sold in the giftshop)

Its technically possible using this technique to aproximate the 1/3 portion of the board -- however these would be cellphones in appearance only (ie: physically altered to scan the wheel etc).

Just my best guess - but it does sound fishy (at least the part about them getting their money back) But like I said - I don't know much about this casino specifically.

Then I go back and read the story very carefully and it mentioned everything I did.....I wasted my time rehashing what was already explained. Oh well. I at least can understand what they did and I believe it. I mentioned eight spots, and the story has them using six spots....that is very tight for the calculations....wow. tulsa

I remember reading quite a bit about this. I thought for sure those guys were busted and couldnt keep the money. What a suprise. Where in the US can this possibly be legal? Casino boats maybe. . hmmm



The device and the software will set you back about 2,000$ . .It's also a two man job

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Roulette Computer[/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In-the-ear canal wireless receiver[/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Remote switching lead[/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Induction loop transmitter[/font]

http://predictroulette.com/

Rob,

That's the circa 1980 style you're showing with the earplug from a confederate outside the casino with a computer.

I guess so. You can always use your own.

The demos are on DVD, and the site is 2004. can't be too old.

I wonder what's in their forum. probably a lot of discussion on where they can get away with this and concealment talk.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4069629.stm<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=629 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>'Laser scam' gamblers to keep £1m



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A laser scanner was allegedly used by the gamblers



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- E IIMA -->A group of gamblers who won more than £1m at the Ritz Casino in London by using laser technology have been told by police they can keep their winnings.


The trio - a Hungarian woman and two Serbian men - were arrested in March but police have apparently decided that they did not break the law.

A laser scanner linked to a computer was allegedly used to gauge numbers likely to come up on the roulette wheel.

But police said the case had now been closed, with no charges brought.

The gamblers managed to earn £1.3m in winnings thanks to the alleged "sting".

On the first night they won £100,000 and on the second took home another £1.2 m, the Sunday Times reported.

Funds frozen

They allegedly used the scanner to judge the speed of the ball on the roulette wheel and hence the number most likely to come up.

The paper reports the gamblers were able to do the calculations swiftly enough to place their bets as required before the roulette wheel has gone round three times.

The three were arrested after the casino launched inquiries and initially their funds were frozen. The newspaper said casinos throughout the country were examining security as a result of the case. A spokeswoman for the Ritz Casino said they had "no comment" to make on the case.


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must be possible

Isaac Newton would probably have been able to crack roulette armed with a modern PC. Its an exercise in simple mechanics, the only random element being the little frets on the inside of the wheel.

The tricky part must be getting the input data correct. Any small error in starting velocity or position and your odds must get miles worse. I guess if they picked a fixed point in the casino outside the wheel and clicked the phone twice when 2 given numbers passed in front of it - say about 6 numbers apart - then with good clicking they'd have a very good idea how fast the wheel was spinning.

And then there would be plenty of time to place bets before time was called by the croupier. The way for the casino to beat this is by calling time earlier than normal before the gang can load up on the favoured sector.

Too true, and I agree peskypup. I was thinking a little more about it....shouldn't the sector (as you call it) be an odd number. The most probable number and then the ones on each side of it. So, instead of six it should be seven numbers. The main choice and the three on each side......... tulsa

not necessarily. an entire sector might be to vague for a laser. it probably looks at that piece of metal dividing the two numbers and then gives you the 3 on each side.

also the metal is more reflective for a laser.

RobFunk said:

not necessarily. an entire sector might be to vague for a laser. it probably looks at that piece of metal dividing the two numbers and then gives you the 3 on each side.

also the metal is more reflective for a laser.

Click to expand...

Rob, that's using your ol' brain....maybe the computer gives the best two choices and the two or three to each side....that makes sense too. tulsa

RobFunk said:

not necessarily. an entire sector might be to vague for a laser. it probably looks at that piece of metal dividing the two numbers and then gives you the 3 on each side.

also the metal is more reflective for a laser.

Click to expand...

OK...I thought some more...here is the problem: The 'reader' 'scanner' has to recognize numbers to know where the wheel is in relation to the ball and then to determine the relative velocity (there is only one velocity that matters..not the wheel and not the ball but the ball versus the wheel...relativity, my dear Watson.) It could determine the relative velocity JUST BY the metal dividers BUT then all are the same and no telling where the ball will land. THUS the 'scanner' must pass the info and the computer must recognize what numbers are whizzing by at the relative velocity to determine where the ball ends up (within a few slots....not exact, of course.) Here is the info that a fast computer needs to know to compute this: very basic: That the ball is the normal sized ball....that the wheel is the normal, random wheel......must be givens..you add mass to the ball or change the wheel's dimensions then all is out the window. So, ceterus paribus (all things equal) the computer only has to 'see' and interpret two frames and distinguish the numbers in each shot (the ball must be in each of the two frames/pictures) and secondly must know the time between the two shots. Then it can calculate the velocity of the ball and the ball's 'location' <sorry Schrodinger and quantum physicists...this is Newtonian<SORRY Newtonian physicists...purely quantum and schrodinger>> on the wheel....By using past experiments and an understanding (calculus) of the degradation of the ball's spinning round the wheel, then it is very possible to determine within a couple of slots where the ball will land. Two good frames (pictures)...and the time between the frames taken...that is all that is needed. This should result in ONE number being the most likely and thus a 'cushion' or few to either side of the ONE number being most likey giving an ODD number of numbers being played by the hacks.....five or seven or nine. tulsa

You got me Tulsa. I thought about the same thing a few minutes later, how does it read the numbers. But then I said maybe that pesky tulsa wont think of that and he will just go away . . . .j/k


I guess if we really wanted a good response we could just ask one of the geeks in that forum, although I don't know how you gain access to it.


But I agree with you, the whole trick is for everything to assume the givens and that they're correct and then look at the ball in relation to the wheel and where the numbers are.

Thanks Rob. I think the computer would read the numbers from the frame/picture just as computers read the text from scanning...Optical Character Recognition...it just would be engineered to be ready to do a great job of OCR on the numbers from the wheel..... Anyways.... See ya'll at the roulette wheel!!! tulsa