NHL OPENING NIGHT in one week....again, what type of lines are we going to see?

arty:

However, we are still in the dark on how the various sportsbooks are going to book the "new" NHL that involves the overtime shootouts.

I am still of the proponent that they should offer lines that include the shootout, and also ones that do NOT include the shootout.

Without the shootout used, we would see lines as in the past........

TEAM A......+.5 +110
TEAM B......-.5 -140

WITH the shootout, lines would be like playoff games of past years....................

TEAM A.......PK +140
TEAM B.......PK -170

Sportsbooks could have three options.....

1. Book games with the shootout included
2. Book games without the shootout included.
3. Book both ways

30 cents of vig ?

DougJ said:

30 cents of vig ?

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Just an example............would hope the majority use 20 cents or lower.

Heck, in the early days of hockey wagering in Vegas, it was not uncommon to see 40 cent lines!

i posted something about this a few days ago in an e-mail i got from Bib Scucci, but this is even better - especially Page 2:


insidehockey.com

Thanks Winky, page 2 here.........



We've briefly touched on how the shootout will affect coaches and players, but how will it affect the sports books and their betting lines? Las Vegas bettors won't have many outs, as most books don't want any puck action, with some even going to great lengths to insult hockey fans and chase them away.


"Overall, I think this is going to be a great season for the books and the fans," said Jay Kornegay, Executive Director for the Las Vegas Hilton's Race and Sports Book. "Most, if not all of the rule changes were made with the fans in mind."


"In the past you had three different booking lines. Now, we're going to see one. It's going to be a lot like baseball with most of the games having money lines," said Jay. "Occasionally you'll see a -1.5 or a -2.5, but 95 percent [of lines] will be a money line. There will be no more -.5 games. This in turn should help the common sports book player understand the line and the betting side should increase the handle."


What Jay failed to mention is that using strictly a PICK line will also help the bookies that have no clue when it comes to booking hockey. Now they will have an excuse when posting only one line (the money line), and they won't be embarrassed when using excessive straddles.


As for totals, if there is a shootout, all books (Las Vegas and offshore) will be adding one goal to the result. For instance, if a game ends 2-2 after 65 minutes of play, the final score will always be posted as 3-2.


But not all bookies will be taking the lazy man's way out and putting up only one line. Many offshore books put up two (and sometimes three) different lines for hockey games. All sharp handicappers know that the bettor loses value on both sides when games have higher prices, so being able to pick between different lines gives a hockey bettor a big edge when looking for value.


Rich Baccellieri is a supervisor at The Palms Sports Book in Las Vegas, and he will also be using money lines similar to baseball lines.


"We are discussing putting up two lines for each game, the pick line and also a 1.5 goal line," said Rich. If we decide against that, we will definitely be using 1.5 goals on games that open pick -80 or higher. That will not only help the book, but will keep us from chasing away bettors who like to bet favorites."


The Palms will be using 20 cents lines (a rarity in Las Vegas) and will be taking up to one or two dimes on sides and $500 on totals. They will also be putting up propositions bets on selected games, and posting daily "The Grand Salami" (20 cent line).


"We are looking forward to hockey this year," said Rich, "especially since we can't carry the NBA."


But hockey bettors, especially old-time fans, aren't so sure that the shootout is a good thing. Hockey handicappers in Las Vegas know for the most part that shopping for prices is a waste of time, with only a handful of books offering value.


"If some books offer the half-puck line, with the result being official after 65 minutes, it might not be so bad," said one hockey handicapper. "But if the past is any indicator, offshore will continue to be the place to find more options."


The shootout also means results will become more random, as it (the shootout) will be impossible to handicap. Bettors needing a result after 65 minutes of a tied game might just as well flip a coin.
In summation, as for the shootout, the goalies will hate it; the shooters and the fans attending will love it. Bettors and fans of old-time hockey will hate it. Regardless, it is here for 2005/06, and don't be surprised if games going to the shootout increases to over 16%, as teams have already shown they don't mind playing for a tie and locking up the one point. What will sports news shows broadcast on the end-of-day highlights? Not the great passes or great checks, but the clips from the shootouts. And why do I feel that fans and bettors alike will long for the past when a tie wasn't such a bad result?<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

From the above article.........



"If some books offer the half-puck line, with the result being official after 65 minutes, it might not be so bad," said one hockey handicapper. "But if the past is any indicator, offshore will continue to be the place to find more options."


In truth, we could have a trio of different options............

PK LINE
Half a puck line
-1.5 puck line

Who is the resident RX hockey guru?

My two cents...

These guys are full of hot air in Vegas. They have been offering the money line for years and this change does nothing to them. The locals places like the Coasts and Stations were dealing the puck line, but most of the Strip places were all in lockstep with the money line. I remember when even the Mirage went to it, I literally walked into the book and looked at the board and said very loudly WTF! Of course 99% of the bettors thought I was some sort of idiot, who the hell bets hockey in October they are all thinking. And that is why they got away with it. The money line just kills the action. Most people in Vegas, even fairly sharp players, won't lay big money lines. The square action you want won't bet a dog because they can play well and still end up tied at best. You get zilch for hockey bets and the books tend to really like that.

It will be interesting to see how they deal the totals. I think they might post them in many places with low limits. The books are getting a sense of the rule changes with a month of preseason games. I heard 61% of the games were 6 goals and over so you probably will see some venture out and post some 6 and 6.5 totals on the games with big fat circles on them.

WildBill said:

My two cents...

These guys are full of hot air in Vegas. They have been offering the money line for years and this change does nothing to them. The locals places like the Coasts and Stations were dealing the puck line, but most of the Strip places were all in lockstep with the money line. I remember when even the Mirage went to it, I literally walked into the book and looked at the board and said very loudly WTF! Of course 99% of the bettors thought I was some sort of idiot, who the hell bets hockey in October they are all thinking. And that is why they got away with it. The money line just kills the action. Most people in Vegas, even fairly sharp players, won't lay big money lines. The square action you want won't bet a dog because they can play well and still end up tied at best. You get zilch for hockey bets and the books tend to really like that.

It will be interesting to see how they deal the totals. I think they might post them in many places with low limits. The books are getting a sense of the rule changes with a month of preseason games. I heard 61% of the games were 6 goals and over so you probably will see some venture out and post some 6 and 6.5 totals on the games with big fat circles on them.

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EXACTLY WB!!

This is why a PUCK line is severely needed offshore................ doubt we will be disappointed, as some books have to realize this is what many many customers want.

-Fish-

One thing is for sure, this is going to be an interesting season. Did you see the beating that the Wings gave the Jackets last night? 9-0!!! can't remember the last time the NHL had a score like that. (Yes I can, Sharks' first year in the league, 1990 or so, they lost 9-0 to NJ, and I had under 8.5).

I think the first month is going to make the cappers pull their hair out. Would be a good time to shop around and exploit the novelty of the new rules.

I talked with one book manager offshore so far. He said the line managers and ownership are thinking of going with a $500 limit for week one. Once the season gets going this is a book that will probably take 2 to 5 dimes a game. Pretty much scares the crap out of them, for obvious reasons. NFL style parity (anyone can win any given game) put onto games with money lines only is a scary risk position for a lot of bookmakers.

well guys, we are not gonna have to guess much longer... few days away now....

look for good lines at Pinny, Mansion, Hollywood, Platinum.......

Some good posts in this thread. I have no idea how the sportsbooks in Las Vegas are going to deal the hockey lines and that's because I don't bet in them anymore. You could close all the sportsbooks in Las Vegas tomorrow and you could't find ten people that would care. Las Vegas has zero impact in the sports betting world. That being said, I think Jay Kornegay at the Las Vegas Hilton and Richie at the Palms both do a pretty good job. At least as much as the bean counters upstairs will let them.

When I moved to Las Vegas in the mid 80's and the city was still in the gambling business, there used to be 8's, 8 1/2's and even 9's posted on the board for hockey totals. That's when the Edmonton Oilers were flying up and down the ice and there was some really good hockey being played. The game has completely deteriorated over time and I feel hockey can and will make somewhat of a comeback if the rule changes are enforced by the same pigheaded and incompetent officials that have helped to screw it up in the first place. If they can't or won't enforce the obstruction rules, then they should be fired.

As one poster mentioned, the totals will probably start off at 6 or 6 1/2. The value may lie in playing the salami over in the first few weeks of the season. I feel that there are more likely to be a lot of 5-4 games rather than the 2-1 type games that can really make it tough to get the salami over. I'm looking forward to the season. Opening night has one of my alltime favorite rivalries. Montreal at Boston.

soccerbob said:

I think Jay Kornegay at the Las Vegas Hilton and Richie at the Palms both do a pretty good job. At least as much as the bean counters upstairs will let them.

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I've heard nothing but great things about the job Kornegay's doing. From staff and patrons. He turned that sports book around into one of the best in town.

By the way, who do you like in the opener, Bruins or Habs?

tooran- I like the over. LOL.

Jay Kornegay had his work cut out for him. He took over the race and sportsbook at the Las Vegas Hilton from Art Manteris, Las Vegas's village idiot. Art has been very consistent in managing sportsbooks though. Every place he's ever been involved with, he's run into the ground. It's amazing to me that someone with limited commen sense, little sports knowledge and no balls has been able to get and keep the positions he has.

I do have a bit of empathy for the guy though. His fugly wife does the morning news on Channel 3. She might possibly be the worst anchor you'll ever have to listen to. These two incompetents are perfect for each other.

soccerbob said:

I do have a bit of empathy for the guy though. His fugly wife does the morning news on Channel 3. She might possibly be the worst anchor you'll ever have to listen to. These two incompetents are perfect for each other.

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I didn't know that. A celebrity wife. He must be proud.

Good call on the over. On all overs for that matter. Yeah, I love the Bos-Mon rivarly. My other favorite was Tor-Det, but thanks to schedule makers and division realignment, I don't think they play each other this year too much, if at all. But I sure look forward to a new season. :toast: