The myth of Dave Wanndstedt

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

I just really don't understand why Wanny gets bashed so much. Yea Pitt is off to a rough start but he is not the worst coach on the planet as some make him out to be. Do you realize that from 2000-2003 (Wannys first 4 seasons in Miami), he went 41-23 - and this was with Jay Fiedler!?! at QB. Over that same period, here are some other coaching records:

Bill Belichick: 39-25
Brian Billick: 39-25
Bill Cowher: 38-25-1
Tony Dungy: 41-23
Jeff Fisher: 43-21
Mike Holmgren: 32-32
Jimmy Johnson (previous 4 years with mia b4 wanny): 36-28
Steve Mariucci: 33-31
Mike Martz: 43-21
Andy Reid: 46-18

Yea the guy didn't do great in Chicago, but he was 32-32 his first 4 years there, made the playoffs twice, and won a playoff game with Steve Walsh as his QB. Why is there such a propensity to label him the worst coach on the face of the earth?

Mr.Smith · Oct 5, 2005

As a dolphins fan, I would say nothing is more wrong that trying to defend him based on his record. He inherited a strong team. Did nothing with it. He was the GM too, he turned the stong personell he inherited into the team that went 4-12 last year.

he cant coach at all. just doesnt get it. if he's ahead by 3 points in the third quarter, he gets much more conservative than he already was. On offense with him, the goal is NOT to score points, that happens by accident. the goal is to get good field position for the defense. I could go on.

It was incredible he didnt get fired 3 years ago for his game decisions. how he didnt get fired before last year is a great mystery and was a horrific decision.

Mr.Smith · Oct 5, 2005

jim,

in poker when you have the best hand, what should you do? pressure the other guys. bet, lay the hammer down. make them pay to hang around.

when wannstedt has the best team, he doesnt do that. he lets them hang around because with a 3-4 point lead in the second half, he stops running any kind of offense instead of trying to close out the weaker team. he will let them hang around. sometimes that would cost Miami a game. it cost them a game at the jets one year very late in the season and the jets ended up winning the division at 10-6 and miami was 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

Because it's hard to fire a guy that hasn't had a losing season in 4 years. Your descitpion of his philosophy sounds a lot like my hometown coach, Mr Billy Cowher - and it drives me crazy at times too. It's his biggest flaw. But you can't argue with Wanny's record. You can accuse of him of not being a big game coach, but it is extremely tough to win in the NFL playoffs with Jay Fiedler as your QB. You can bash him for his GM abilities if he kept Fiedler around that long, but I just don't see why everyone calls him the worst coach ever. The worst coach of all time doesn;t lead a team to 4 straight winning seasons.

blueedwards · Oct 5, 2005

he could screw up a wet dream

Mr.Smith · Oct 5, 2005

Jim, who is bettwer a coach who leads talent that ought to go 4-12 to a 6-10 record or one that has talent to go 11-5 but goes 9-7?

the biggest problem like I said was he simply lets lesser teams hang around instead of laying down the hammer when he has the better hand. he went 10-6 and 9-7 before 4-12, but in the 10-6 and 9-7 years BOTH times he failed to make the playoffs.

the 9-7 record and 10-6 record saved his job after each season, but where are the results? call it bad luck if you want that they didnt make the playoffs, I think it had more to do with Wannstedt doing just enough to fail. they faltered down the stretch both years including the blown jets game that pushed them from AFC East champs to completely out of the playoffs. Dolphins were much better than the jets that year, at least on paper.

his Pitt record speaks for itself. Good luck Pitt, you'll need it!

primetime21+ · Oct 5, 2005

The dolphins defense when wanny took over was good enough to win 8 games with their eyes closed. Including a player like ricky williams and it would have been near impossible not to be above .500.

WIth that being said everyone needs to give him some time in pitt. They lost a lot of key players and he is instituting whole new schemes with new players. You cant judge a head coach his first year in college. give him 2 more years and we will see where he stands.

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

2000 He won a playoff game in a season where he had Jay Fiedler and Lamar Smith at QB/RB and his top 2 WR's were Orande Gadsden and Leslie Shepherd. yea the defense was great (6th overall) but the great Jimmy Johnson had the same great defense the year before (4th overall) and similarly made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs before being crushed. Don't forget that Wanny was coordinating all of those great defenses. Just never had enough firepower on offense.

Mr.Smith · Oct 5, 2005

Jim

he was 9-7 that season. strond defense got them into playoffs, with that offense, I'd say yeah he must have done a good job that season. he wasnt in any trouble then. his results after that were continuiing to get less defendable each year.

Ricky's first season in Miami he rushed for 1800 yds and Miami had a good defense and they failed to make the playoffs. Dolphin fans were left to wonder how that was possible?

as for his lack of firepower on offense, a lot of that was his doing. As a defensive coach, he made some high draft picks on defense when Miami badly needed offense.

on year for instance Maimi could have taken Drew Brees midway thru the first round. though Miami had 2 all-pro cornerbacks already Wannstedt took CB Jamar Fletcher from Wisconsin over Brees. :icon_conf

Fletcher was a bust.

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

Not arguing about his GM capabilities. Can't defend him for going with Fiedler for so long. Just his overall coaching abilities which aren't nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Coaches that can win big games against good competition with a QB/WR set that he had are few and far between. Also not trying to argue that he is a great coach, or even an above average coach - just that he's not the worst. Just don't understand why he is such a target for bashing. Must be the moustache

ronaldn · Oct 5, 2005

I can look at this from 2 different angles. My son, who is a Pitt grad insists that Walt Harris destroyed this team as he knew he was leaving 2 years before he actually did and Wannstedt inherited a team bereft of talent.

From my perspective I go back to the Notre Dame game. When a Pitt linebacker commited an incredibly stupid personal foul that allowed ND to continue a scoring drive instead of having to punt, Wannstedt calmly and without emotion listened to the LB's explanation and gave him a pat and said OK. On the other side of the field when a ND player did a stupid thing, Charlie Weis was all over the kid and in his face and let him know such stupidity was unacceptible. At that very moment I thought to myself "this does not bode well for Pitt's future". JMHO.

David1 · Oct 5, 2005

Pitt-3 vs Notre Dame At first I loved Pitt. Then I remembered. Wannstedt vs. Charlie Weiss. Cmon, give me a break. Free money Go Irish

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

Please don't forget that ND's talent is light years ahead of Pitt's. About the only kid on Pitt's roster that was recruited by ND was Palko. Ole Beano Cook preached all week that the level of recruit at ND was head and shoulders ahead of Pitt, especially along both lines. He was right. It's not so much that ND is overacheiving now, it is that they were underachieving badly the last decade or so. They still get the recruits.

From 2000-2004, Wanny's Miami teams went 4-5 vs Weis and the Pats. Not too shabby.

TTinCO · Oct 5, 2005

"The myth of Dave Wanndstedt"

What myth-the one about him being able to coach?

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

TTinCO said:
"The myth of Dave Wanndstedt"

What myth-the one about him being able to coach?

Nice logic. Would love to hear your reasoning.

redpimp · Oct 5, 2005

Mr. Smith said:
As a dolphins fan, I would say nothing is more wrong that trying to defend him based on his record. He inherited a strong team. Did nothing with it. He was the GM too, he turned the stong personell he inherited into the team that went 4-12 last year.

he cant coach at all. just doesnt get it. if he's ahead by 3 points in the third quarter, he gets much more conservative than he already was. On offense with him, the goal is NOT to score points, that happens by accident. the goal is to get good field position for the defense. I could go on.

It was incredible he didnt get fired 3 years ago for his game decisions. how he didnt get fired before last year is a great mystery and was a horrific decision.

He is definately a horrible field general...It seems he cant think on his feet and has some of the worst luck in the world...This guy should be hired as a cooler in las Vegas.... I guess i kinda feel sorry for him because i have lived through some patches in life where i was just like him...couldnt catch a break to save my arse!!!!

TescoVee · Oct 5, 2005

his predictable play calling, clock management and lack of adjustments rivaled Herm Edwards.

as a Pats fan, hated to see him leave.

Mr.Smith · Oct 5, 2005

He would make a good cooler. Pitt was in the Fiesta Bowl last year. he sure cooled them off

Objection · Oct 5, 2005

In Chicago he inherited the remnants of Ditka's team and ran the franchise into the ground.His decisions made during the game and halftime adjustments were atrocious.He has some bizzarre love affair with Tony Wise and Matt Cavanaugh.Somewhere there is a highschool team that would be a prefect fit for Wanny.

PokerKingJim · Oct 5, 2005

Ditka went 5-11 in '92, the year before Wanny took over. Must not have had that much talent. Wanny went 32-32 first 4 years in Chicago before the bottom fell out.

Pitt made the Fiesta bowl last year, but everyone knows what a farce that was. Do I need to remind you of Pitt's schedule?

Lost at home to a mediocre Nebraska team
Needed a comeback and overtime to beat Furman at home
Lost badly at Uconn
Won 27-22 at Temple in an atrocious performance
Beat BC at home in OT - Quality win
Lost at Syracuse
Won at Notre Dame - ND wasn't very good but still a quality win
Beat WVU at home - big rivalry game. Quality win.
Got trounced vs Utah

This team shouldn't have been anywhere near a BCS game last year. Their talent level is much closer to their record this year than it is to last year's record. If BC hadn't choked and Pitt hadn't won some crazy tie breakers to get them to a BCS game, the expectations wouldn't have been as high this season. They shouldn;t have lost to Ohio but this is the same team that nearly lost to Furman and Temple last year.