Dodgers Owners Are Clueless

McCourt is the pour mans Steinbrenner, literally and figuratively...

I'm so disgraced right now, I've removed my Dodgers Avatar.

I've never been this upset at our organization for this pathetic display & thinking.

Lasorda is partly to blame, that backstabbing SOB. DePodesta was given less than 24 months to institute his plan - inside of 5 years.

I'm ashamed. There is no other way to put it. Ashamed sums up my feelings perfectly.

We are a joke and now have zero credibility. I was willing to follow DePodesta down his path - willing to try and see his point of views. And honestly - I was really beginning to agree.

He finally had his own shot at hiring a manager that could jive with his thinking. Yet Frank McCourt, who less then 2 weeks ago said DePo was still the GM without any questions, goes behind his back and fires his GM because he was planning on hiring a manager which didn't "look good to the fans".

I'm just speechless...there's no excuse, no explanation...

"The GM and manager must exist on the same level. We are confident that finding the right manager will allow the organization to excel on and off the field."

The GM chooses his manager. Not the other way around. The owner doesn't find his manager, then hire a GM with no experience on the board.

If Orel Hershisher is the Dodgers new GM with Bobby Valentine as the new manager.....don't know what to say. Let's just make McCourt the Manager and his wife can be the GM. They've already fired 1/2 off of the staff whose been on the team for years on end...and replaced them with a PR firm, and their two sons.

As I said before this season that really tore up pretty good nucleus...at the same time some of the players they passed on had awful years...now it looks like a total free fall , LA is the only large market team that can't seem to get its act together in this era...they can't even attract the real impact players...

something has definitely changed out there the past 15 years....

lifelong dodger fan here and i gotta say..depodesta was horrible. had no clue or vision whatsoever. glad he's gone. look east young men...theo looks like he will be available and mccourt has ties to the boston area!!

pdjco said:

lifelong dodger fan here and i gotta say..depodesta was horrible. had no clue or vision whatsoever. glad he's gone. look east young men...theo looks like he will be available and mccourt has ties to the boston area!!

Click to expand...

then you are a mindless dodgers fan. if you honestly believe depo had no idea what he was doing, you are a slave to the LA Times and Bill Plashke. Read this article and see exactly, how "die hard" you really are...

The Dodger Tradition
2005-10-30 03:52
by Jon Weisman
Let me tell you all you need to know about the Dodger Way, about Dodger tradition.

Only one team in history has ever traded Jackie Robinson. The Dodgers.

Perhaps the biggest hero of the game in the past 60 years, and the Dodgers forced him into retirement.

The last great era for the Dodgers was the 1980s, when they won four divisions and two World Series. The Dodgers kicked off that era with the high-priced acquisitions of free agents Don Stanhouse and Dave Goltz - both of whom flopped.

The Dodgers recovered to win a World Series in 1981. Before the champagne had dried from the team's World Series trophy, the Dodgers rid themselves of longtime second baseman Davey Lopes (who stole 139 bases in his post-Dodger career) and Reggie Smith (who hit 18 homers in 106 games for the 1982 Giants).

One year later, the Dodger Way allowed cornerstones Steve Garvey and Ron Cey to leave. Each won a division title with another team; the two combined for 139 home runs in other teams' uniforms.

Dusty Baker left after the 1983 season, following what might have been the ugliest period of miscommunication between a team and its star player in Dodger history.

The Dodgers replaced these people with a mixture of minor leaguers from within and major leaguers from without. Some of them succeeded, some of them failed.

It was legendary Dodger executive Branch Rickey, a statistician, who said it was better to trade a player a year early than a year late. That is the foundation of the Dodger tradition.

Meanwhile, Tommy Lasorda's 1988 World Series title was preceded by three losing seasons out of four from 1984-87. The only place that the Dodgers have valued stability over performance in the past 50 years, where one could fail or grow old without repercussions, has been the front office.

The idea that somehow, Paul DePodesta violated the Dodger ethos by trading Paul Lo Duca or Dave Roberts, or letting Adrian Beltre go, or watching a division winner have a losing season the following year, is patently absurd, and anyone who says otherwise has simply forgotten or chosen to forget the team's history.

The record shows that DePodesta did not put the Dodgers in the playoffs again in 2005. Shocking, I know. Do you know what the Dodgers' record for consecutive postseason appearances is in their 121-year history? Two. It is a Dodger tradition, like it or not, to have disappointment and then regroup.

Smith, perhaps the Dodgers' highest-profile outside acquisition from the 1970s, missed 301 games in his six seasons with the team. Kirk Gibson, perhaps the Dodgers' highest-profile acquisition from the 1980s, played 71 games the season after his great home run - one fewer than J.D. Drew - and was soon unceremoniously dumped. It is a Dodger tradition, like it or not, for key players to get hurt and stay hurt.

The Dodgers traditionally win when they rely on their farm system and the farm system produces. To be sure, the farm system doesn't always produce. But in their entire history in Los Angeles, the team has made only one playoff appearance with fewer than five home-grown players in the starting lineup. That team was the hallowed 2004 team at whose breakup everyone is so aghast.

DePodesta bet his future on the Dodger Way, transforming the team into one that was going to rely on the farm system, supported by a few outside acquisitions. He had not finished the job - a 71-91 record indicates that - but he was doing exactly what people have been asking for since 1988. He was doing exactly what the Dodgers have been doing almost forever.

DePodesta might have needed to improve his communication skills, but it doesn't help to be surrounded by people who refuse to listen to you, who have their knives out for you.

One can only hope that the next Dodger general manager has as good a sense of what made the Dodgers great as DePodesta did. It's as if people think Dodger Stadium was Eden before DePodesta arrived. It might have been a paradise at times, but a paradise found through major trial and error.

Update: Mark Whicker of the Registerhttp://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/atoz/article_741034.php has a fairly balanced take:

DePodesta never got a chance to hire a manager. He had barely cleaned up the broken glass from the effects of Hurricane Kevin, the Category 5 disaster that battered the Dodgers for 2 1/2 seasons.

At the very least he had introduced some contractual sanity, and was looking forward to playing with the $24 million the Dodgers would no longer be paying Darren Dreifort and Shawn Green. ...

So Lasorda became the interim GM in '98, following Claire. "I'm not interested (in doing it now)," he said Saturday. "It's tough. You get here early in the morning and leave late at night."

Well, it's not as tough as Lasorda made it look.

In July of that year he traded Paul Konerko to Cincinnati for Jeff Shaw. At season's end he was surprised to learn that Shaw could demand a trade. Shaw took $8.1 million for three years instead. Konerko - entering free agency after back-to-back 40-home run seasons - has hit 128 bombs since Shaw retired.

actually dr. i live in western ny. never read the la times in my life. just giving my opinion. couldn't see the logic in trading loduca and mota for penny at that point in the season. didn't like the finley rental. didn't even like getting rid of tom martin to atlanta for nothing. goes into this season with no catcher, has to make a move for jason phillips, oh my god! kent is a locker room cancer and drew is always hurt. they end up with weaver and lowe as there 1-2. sorry if i offended you but personally, i just didn't see where he was going.

i have been a fan all my life - lived, breathed and die with them

once this MORON took them over i no longer cared and now he has ruined the team to the point i not only no longer care i root against them

and the worst part of it all - he will NOT sell anytime soon. he owns the property around Dodger Stadium and will turn that place into a Universal City Walk/Dowtown Disney and make a TON of money from it - and put NONE of it into the team

all i have to say now is

GO ANGELS!

haha - you call yourself a fan? your the red headed step child we want nothing to do with winky. good riddance, you can hate an owner, hate a manager or hate a direction -- but face the facts. a true fan weathers the storm - they don't jump ship to the local rivals in socal. dispicable.

pdjco - I fail to see the comments you made. The dodgers did get something for tom martin. where was tom martin this year? he was let go from the braves because he sucked. I can't believe you think Tom Martin was a bad move. Dodger fans who actually watch the games know how painful it was to know that martin was the only situational reliver in the bullpen last year. Didn't like Finley? Well then I guess you must be frustrated at how he single handedly won the West for us...enough - not even worth the energy. do yourself a favor sometime and check out the dodgers minor leagues. go ahead -- then go back and see which minor league talent was given away for these "rentals" or these "cancers" -- go see why the future has never been brighter.

except now -- it's only as bright as the person taking it over in the long run. lucky SOB is falling into one hell of a situation...but im sure you'd be excited if tom lasorda took over again. You know - pedro for delino, shaw for konerko, all those AMAZING transactions you can't live without.

Dr.Pepper said:

McCourt is the pour mans Steinbrenner, literally and figuratively...

I'm so disgraced right now, I've removed my Dodgers Avatar.

I've never been this upset at our organization for this pathetic display & thinking.

Lasorda is partly to blame, that backstabbing SOB. DePodesta was given less than 24 months to institute his plan - inside of 5 years.

I'm ashamed. There is no other way to put it. Ashamed sums up my feelings perfectly.

We are a joke and now have zero credibility. I was willing to follow DePodesta down his path - willing to try and see his point of views. And honestly - I was really beginning to agree.

He finally had his own shot at hiring a manager that could jive with his thinking. Yet Frank McCourt, who less then 2 weeks ago said DePo was still the GM without any questions, goes behind his back and fires his GM because he was planning on hiring a manager which didn't "look good to the fans".

I'm just speechless...there's no excuse, no explanation...

"The GM and manager must exist on the same level. We are confident that finding the right manager will allow the organization to excel on and off the field."

The GM chooses his manager. Not the other way around. The owner doesn't find his manager, then hire a GM with no experience on the board.

If Orel Hershisher is the Dodgers new GM with Bobby Valentine as the new manager.....don't know what to say. Let's just make McCourt the Manager and his wife can be the GM. They've already fired 1/2 off of the staff whose been on the team for years on end...and replaced them with a PR firm, and their two sons.

Click to expand...

Here are some facts for you.

The Dodgers's record was very very very poor considering the talent they had.

Your GM should have conviced the owner to dump Tracy long ago.

The right decision was made.

the talent they had ? do you watch basebal ? were you not following the whole dodgers lost over 600 gms due to injury this year? here are some facts for you...

milton bradley DL *
werth DL
o perez DL
izturis DL *
gagne DL *
valentin DL
alvarez DL
wunsch DL *
dreifort DL *
thompson DL *
sanchez DL
bako DL *

oh yea, those were all starters...and the * means they were lost for the entire season. you find one team in MLB with that sort of injury bug and then find me a record that isn't very very very very poor.

I appreciate chiming in, but at least try to know what your talking about...yea - dump tracy good idea. Right after he wins the NL West...you got it.

The facts are that Depodesta wasn't givin a shot to do anything - he had an 84 million dollar payroll 28 below what McCourt said he would use last year - he signed no long term bad contracts, and didn't give away one minor leaguer. So again, the facts are incorrect -- yours at least -- McCourt fired him due to pressure in the papers and becuase the manager DePo selected - McCourt did not like. Thats BS and hypocrisy.

who the hell fires their GM after winning the NL west - then falling ill with injuries? only giving him an 84 million dollar payroll...he goes out gets it done, and starts 12-2, then injuries hit - and thats our season...people act like losing gagne was nothing, that drew for the year was a small loss, and etc etc etc. of course - when the team gets hurt - just fire whoever the media is pointing at (plashke)

While I agree in to a large degree with the 'moneyball' principle, the fact of the matter is DePodesta made some really dumb decisions. Giving a long term contract to JD Drew was utter insanity instead of resigning Beltre. Yes I know he struggled in Seattle but at least he stayed in the lineup and gave you good defense something that slipped in Dodger town this year. Plus Drew can NEVER be trusted with more then one year contracts. Kent, while a great hitter for a second baseman, is a poor defensive second baseman at this point (Never was above average anyway). So two of the main strengths that enabled this team to contend over Tracy's tenure, the best defense in the majors and the best bullpen went down the toilet (Gagne's injury no ones fault) with not enough gain in the offense to offset it. What is the answer? I don't know. I think Aybar could turn out to be a good player. It would be nice to get Perez's bat in the lineup but the only position where he isn't a total butcher at is shortstop but that is manned by IzOUTis. Want the defense or the offense? Hopefully things turn around because I might have to become a Angel fan.

I agree about Aybar. Also I do know JD Drew's history...but let's not be foolish about his past - when his past included knee injuries and back problems. He's had none of those now for over a year...he was hit on the wrist with a 95mph fastball. It broke the wrist and set him back for the season, I refuse to blame that on him. Ask Jason Werth the same thing, 1st spring training game - 95mph fastball breaks his wrist and he is never the same.

Gagne's injury was later described as partially Jim Collburns fault for changing his delivery. Jeff Kent had his best year defensively since his MVP season. Once again...was 21 months , more or less two offseasons and one full season enough for a GM who was just now getting his own manager enough?

Degenerate, you sound like you might know a little about the teams minor league system. One word..."Stacked"

taken from a blog i read daily.

Nevertheless, in a world where many decry the $55 million signing of J.D. Drew - who was twice as valuable (31.0 VORP) offensively in 72 games this season than Beltre (15.1) was in 156, people still make the case that letting Beltre go to the Mariners for $64 million was a mistake.

It's a multi-point case arguing that Beltre:

1) would have signed for less money to stay with the Dodgers, had Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta made a more personal effort.
2) plays a valuable defensive position and plays it well.
3) plays almost every day.
4) is 26, meaning his career peak is probably still ahead.
5) was adjusting to a new environment, whereas in his Los Angeles comfort zone he would have done better.
6) was a True Dodger.

to read on, go here.... http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/283436.html

Well as a long time Dodger fan it always seems like the 'talent' down on the farm is more hype then reality. For one thing, the AAA team has nothing that I could see and the super prospects on the Jacksonville team really didn't tear it up. Edwin Jackson seems to have regressed. Loney didn't impress, AGAIN. Guzman is certainly talented but not disciplined. As mentioned before, Aybar looks like a keeper though. Bottom line with the Dodgers was their pitching was vastly more below average then their offense. One nice thing though is the division will still be weak so a bounceback is certainly within reach.
Back to Drew, I realize that it was a fastball on the wrist but fact is he has only ONCE played a full year. Baseball Prospetus wrote that the ability to stay healthy is a skill and bad luck or not, that is a skill JD Drew and Milton Bradley lack. Unfortunate as they are perfect type of players who create runs.

P.S.
Jason Werth is a platoon player not a everyday player and missing him was imho no factor. I have never read the blog so i'll have to check it out.

As for Jim Tracy, I think he was a very good manager overall. The only thing that really annoyed me was his using Izoutis in the leadoff or second slot the last several years. Of course he didn't have alot to choose from. Dodgers haven't had a good leadoff hitter since ol' Brett Butler faded away.

Werth was a huge loss coming out of the gate. Werth hit 24 bombs last year in limited action in the 2nd half...

you may not know this but A. the dodgers double A team won the double A championship this year.

B. the dodgers are no longer advancing pitching to triple A from double A, as triple A is very high altitude and tends to damage the young guns.

C. The dodgers had a plethora, and still do of talen in double A. Guzman, LaRoche, Loney, Broxton, Kuo, Billingsley, Martin (who is forecasted to do better than Navarro) etc etc. the list really doesn't stop. Billingsley will make the rotation this year at some point. We still have rights to Luke Hochevar - if he signs anytime soon.

Add those players to the team in a few years - and you'll have a perrennial winner. Hell we even have Repko, Navarro, Aybar, Werth who will have another year under their belt. This was not our peaking year, specifically due to injuries.

I honestly believe DePo had a plan. And now today, with Theo expected to take a year off, and Gillick signing with Philly - we are up a creek with no paddle and the boat is leaking. It's sad. Very sad. Bobby Valentine, as much as I hate him -- and his ability to manage -- if he's off the board, then we are even deeper in the pits.

Love talking baseball, even now. I guess my cynicism wins out for the Dodgers. Werth slugged under .400 this year and in 2004 hit left handers much better so you are far more convinced than I am. As for Bobby Valentine, if he does become the manager that might be a sign Tommy Lasorda has more influence then we think. Is it true ol' Bobby won the World Series in Japan??? :digit:

I've heard nothing less than Lasorda had his hand in the cookie jar with this firing. And now look at them -- no GM , no manager - no vision.

The Dodgers just signed the worst hitter(min. 75 at-bats) at Chavez Ravine, former Brave Rafael Furcal. His batting avg. at his now home ballpark, a robust .157.