The state of Florida gaming: Slots Just Latest Bet As Florida Gambling Rises

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</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE width="100%" valign="top"><TBODY><TR><TD>Slots Just Latest Bet As Florida Gambling Rises
Dec 05, 2005
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As sleek greyhounds parade around the track - and even when they take off in a pack after "Rusty," the mechanical rabbit - not a single gambler in the poker room at the Jefferson County Kennel Club casts a glance in their direction.

The players are interested only in Texas Hold 'Em, the poker craze that has spread from Las Vegas and Atlantic City to television, the Internet and - partly because of a measure passed by the Florida Legislature two years ago - parimutuel facilities like this dog track 20 miles outside Tallahassee.

That bill, which allowed tournament-style games in the poker rooms and which Gov. Jeb Bush let pass into law without his signature, caused poker room gross receipts in the state to jump from $2.8 million in 2002-03 to $18.5 million in 2003-04 and $38.1 million last year, according to the Department of Business and Professional Regulation.

Poker tournaments are just one component of the increase in legal wagering that has occurred during Bush's administration, despite his stated opposition to gambling, including repeatedly campaigning against allowing slot machines in the state.

In addition to the rise in poker-room betting, lottery sales have jumped 52 percent since Bush took office in 1999, from $2.3 billion to $3.49 billion last year.

Under Bush, state lottery officials have doubled the number of weekly Lotto drawings and upped the ante of the most expensive scratch-off tickets from $5 to $20, tripling scratch-off ticket sales from $568 million to $1.8 billion in six years.

The next round for gambling proponents is this week's special session of the legislature, when lawmakers are scheduled to resolve an issue left over from the regular spring session: What kind of slot machines will be allowed in Broward County racetracks and jai alai frontons and at Indian casinos statewide.

Two referendums last year - one statewide and one in Broward - permitted the introduction of slots in parimutuel facilities in Broward. The Senate wanted to let the parimutuels operate Las Vegas-style slot machines, while Bush and the House preferred to limit them to the less-lucrative video bingo-style slots, similar to the machines now in use at tribal casinos, including the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood.

Because federal Indian gaming rules allow tribes to operate the same type of gambling permitted elsewhere in the state, the legislature's indecision about the slots has also stymied talks between Bush and Seminole and Miccosukee tribal leaders about whether they should be able to operate Las Vegas-style slots. Parimutuel operators say they need slots and tournament poker to keep alive their industry, which paid the state more than $33.2 million in taxes from parimutuel and card room wagering in 2004-05. Until they started holding poker tournaments two years ago, parimutuels in the state said, they saw declines in attendance over the past decade - and they blamed the Florida Lottery. Odds of winning lottery games vary from as high as 1-in-3 to win something on a scratch-off ticket to 1-in-3 million-plus to win one of the multimillion-dollar online jackpots.

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5teamparlay said:

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<center><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>Gambling News


Fl. possibly going to push it's gaming to the next level:
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Dec 05, 2005
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As sleek greyhounds parade around the track - and even when they take off in a pack after "Rusty," the mechanical rabbit - not a single gambler in the poker room at the Jefferson County Kennel Club casts a glance in their direction.

The players are interested only in Texas Hold 'Em, the poker craze that has spread from Las Vegas and Atlantic City to television, the Internet and - partly because of a measure passed by the Florida Legislature two years ago - parimutuel facilities like this dog track 20 miles outside Tallahassee.

That bill, which allowed tournament-style games in the poker rooms and which Gov. Jeb Bush let pass into law without his signature, caused poker room gross receipts in the state to jump from $2.8 million in 2002-03 to $18.5 million in 2003-04 and $38.1 million last year, according to the Department of Business and Professional Regulation.

Poker tournaments are just one component of the increase in legal wagering that has occurred during Bush's administration, despite his stated opposition to gambling, including repeatedly campaigning against allowing slot machines in the state.

In addition to the rise in poker-room betting, lottery sales have jumped 52 percent since Bush took office in 1999, from $2.3 billion to $3.49 billion last year.

Under Bush, state lottery officials have doubled the number of weekly Lotto drawings and upped the ante of the most expensive scratch-off tickets from $5 to $20, tripling scratch-off ticket sales from $568 million to $1.8 billion in six years.

The next round for gambling proponents is this week's special session of the legislature, when lawmakers are scheduled to resolve an issue left over from the regular spring session: What kind of slot machines will be allowed in Broward County racetracks and jai alai frontons and at Indian casinos statewide.

Two referendums last year - one statewide and one in Broward - permitted the introduction of slots in parimutuel facilities in Broward. The Senate wanted to let the parimutuels operate Las Vegas-style slot machines, while Bush and the House preferred to limit them to the less-lucrative video bingo-style slots, similar to the machines now in use at tribal casinos, including the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood.

Because federal Indian gaming rules allow tribes to operate the same type of gambling permitted elsewhere in the state, the legislature's indecision about the slots has also stymied talks between Bush and Seminole and Miccosukee tribal leaders about whether they should be able to operate Las Vegas-style slots. Parimutuel operators say they need slots and tournament poker to keep alive their industry, which paid the state more than $33.2 million in taxes from parimutuel and card room wagering in 2004-05. Until they started holding poker tournaments two years ago, parimutuels in the state said, they saw declines in attendance over the past decade - and they blamed the Florida Lottery. Odds of winning lottery games vary from as high as 1-in-3 to win something on a scratch-off ticket to 1-in-3 million-plus to win one of the multimillion-dollar online jackpots.

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Why don't they just legalize gambling already.

Florida is such a retarded state.

Can't legalize it cause you would offend the fire and brimstone thumpers the Republicans need badly everywhere north of Tampa. This is a state with its own Mason Dixon line dividing blue and red.

last year i went to south beach for spring break and my friends and i went up to hollywood to hit up the casino...and they didnt even have any blackjack tables...only poker tables and slot machines...

I live in Miami. Have my whole life. This state is very divided. They don't havy any other casino games. Just poker, slots, and video poker. That's it. Besides bingo.

ChrisYandek said:

I live in Miami. Have my whole life. This state is very divided. They don't havy any other casino games. Just poker, slots, and video poker. That's it. Besides bingo.

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Those arent even real slots, they are like lotto slots.

This is an almost done deal. All that is left to decide is how long you will have to wait in line (how many slots they can have) and how ass the facilities look (how high a tax rate will it be). Then the Seminoles will get the good slots and its off to the races. Poor tracks and fronton will be begging for more soon cause the Tribe won't have machine limits and will surely pay very little to the state in whatever compact they get. They probably will also get more table games and higher limits than the silly 1/2 poker shit they have to abide by now. After all everything is available on a boat, so for the state to say don't allow them to have it just looks stupid.

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Jan 08, 2006
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The Seminole Tribe of Florida has sued governors, petitioned presidents and waited two decades to offer Las Vegas-style slot machines at its casinos. With the simple swipe of Gov. Jeb Bush's pen last week, they now are guaranteed to get the higher-stakes games.


The question is: how soon?

The hurdles are high: The tribe must first enter into an agreement, or compact, with a governor who is fiercely determined to limit gambling. Next, the Seminoles must get the compact approved by the U.S. Department of the Interior, whose secretary works for the brother of the anti-gambling governor.

And, amid all this, fierce competition for the Seminoles' Hard Rock Hotel & Casino near Hollywood is only months away, when the newly signed law allows Broward's four parimutuels to bring in 6,000 slot machines after June 4.

By all appearances, the overwhelming success of the tribe's Hard Rock casinos in Hollywood and Tampa indicates they're not hurting for business. But on Friday, the Seminoles wasted no time sending a message that they want an agreement with the governor soon.

''The governor's announcement that he is committed to achieving a quick and fair agreement offers new hope that a compact can be achieved,'' Gary Bitner, spokesman for the Seminole Tribe, said in a statement to The Miami Herald. ''The tribe has been trying since 1991 to negotiate a compact with the state of Florida without success.''

But, he added: ''The tribe cannot wait indefinitely.'' The Seminoles will continue to pursue the alternative track they have taken since 1999, when they petitioned federal authorities to allow the tribe to offer Class III slot machines and other casino games such as blackjack, roulette, craps and keno, without a state compact, he said.

Class III machines -- better known as Las Vegas-style slots -- allow casinos to give higher payouts than the tribes currently can with Class II.

As a result, the larger payouts are believed to attract more players and generate more money.

Bitner said the Interior Department has invited the tribe, its attorneys and attorneys for the state of Florida 'to participate in an 'informal conference' in the near future to discuss Class III 'procedures.' ''

Whatever the route taken to get Class III gambling, Bitner said, ''there is no question that the tribe has a right to offer slot machines and card games, since those games are now expressly permitted under Florida law.''

Under federal law, the governor is obligated to negotiate a compact ''in good faith'' with the Indians to spell out the rules that will apply to slot machine operations.

Before 1988, federal courts allowed tribes to operate gaming on their reservations free from state regulation if the state's public policy was to regulate, rather than prohibit, those games. Congress enacted the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act in October 1988 and gave the states a role in regulating tribal operations of Class III games, as long as the state permits Class III machines.

Bush began compact talks with the Seminoles three months after Broward County voters authorized slot machines at parimutuels last March. But the negotiations were mired in uncertainty as both parties waited for the Florida Legislature to decide how many machines it would permit and what tax rate it would charge the Broward racetracks.

Last week, after signing the bill that regulates slot operations at Broward racetracks and its jai alai fronton, Bush said he will resume compact talks with the Seminoles and begin talks with Miccosukee tribal Chairman Billy Cypress by the end of the month.

''We will make a good faith effort to try to reach agreement,'' the governor said.

The negotiations won't be easy. The Seminoles sued the state of Florida in 1991 to force it to enter into compact negotiations and lost.

Bush, who is zealous in his effort to limit gambling, has repeatedly said he will seek to allow the Seminoles and Miccosukees to install the higher-stakes slot machines in their existing casinos -- but nowhere else.

''I'm not holding my cards close here, so to speak,'' Bush said. ''My object in a compact is to restrict gambling and maybe there is a convergence of agreement. . . . People that have gambling right now might not want more competition, and I don't want more gambling 'cause I hate it.''

In exchange for asking the tribes to agree to limits on gambling, Bush wants to offer the tribes the exclusive right to operate slot machines in the state outside Broward and Miami-Dade counties, a promise many in the parimutuel industry doubt he can deliver. Many racetrack owners outside Broward and Dade have told legislators they are waiting for the governor to leave office, then they will petition lawmakers and the new governor to allow them to put in slots at their struggling facilities.

Bush is expected to follow the example of other states and ask the tribes to follow state rules and share their gambling revenue with the state in exchange for the exclusive operating rights.

''What it will get down to is how many [machines] and where and what it's going to cost,'' said Ken Adams, a Nevada gaming consultant who has watched the developments in Florida.

But don't count on the Seminoles and Miccosukees to rush the state with checks, he said. When Native American tribes in Oklahoma reached an agreement in that state last year on Class III games, the state expected them to install up to 30,000 machines and hand over millions of dollars in revenue-sharing checks, Adams said.

''The tribes put in only 2,000 games because they're making money off their existing machines,'' he said.

Adams predicts that the Florida tribes will seek about 5,000 Class III slots at each location and resist any revenue sharing that exceeds 10 to 15 percent. States that have proposed levels higher than that have had them rejected as excessive by the Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs, he said.

The Seminoles operate five casinos -- in Hollywood, Tampa, Okeechobee, Coconut Creek and Immokalee -- and the Miccosukees operate one in western Miami-Dade.

'I couldn't guess what the tribe's strategy would be, but I would guess it would begin with sovereignty. 'This is our land. We can do what we want here.' They could argue that the state limiting it in an artificial way doesn't make any sense,'' Adams said.

But others say there may be some appeal for the tribes to agree to accept an exclusive deal with Bush now, as long as it includes a provision that allows them to come back if legislators or voters expand gambling in the future.

The governor ''is in a very difficult position,'' Adams said. ''My guess is he's going to take a very slow approach and try and stretch this out as long as he can.''

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The north half of Florida epitimizes the term white trash - I buy alot of tax deeds and once went to Deland County - was told the Waffle House is a good restaurant.

Florida is one messed up state. You have far too many ultra conservatives and conservatives. From the Hispanics in South Florida (Republicans) to the three toothed, barefoot red necks in western and northern Florida, all shooting gambling down but they will vote to have another Super Wal-Mart put in at the end of their block or Waffle House.
Gambling in Florida would be incredible--probably better than Vegas. Look at what the Hard Rock Casino and Hotel has done to Fort Lauderdale. That place is jammed packed with just cheesey ass bingo type slots, and poker. The poker wait last night by the way was close to 3 hours and Jason Taylor (DE of Miami Dolphins) was there playing some cards. South Beach has complained some since the Hard Rock on weekends is so ridiculously packed, they have seen a decline in business. The Seminoles, who own the Hard Rock, built it because they are expecting to have a full fledged casino in the near future. If that happens, the Seminoles may have 100 dollar bills in each bathroom stall to wipe your ass with.
Imagine South Beach though with luxurious Vegas-style hotels. WOW! Beaches, drinking, gamlbing, women, everyone would want to be apart of South Beach.
Until then if the Seminoles get full fledged gambling, that place will be UNREAL! They already have bars, restaurants, and shopping set up adjacent to the casino. It's a pretty cool place if you have not been but don't expect craps, blackjack, and real slots. The poker is decent though.
When is Jeb's term done?

Jeb is done at the end of this year. The top candidates for office are likely to be a little less anti-gambling, although the en vogue thing for the Republican candidates to say is they hate gambling and will try to repeal the slots in Broward County. Total grandstanding because everyone knows there aren't enough votes to get that done, but just like ass-wipe Kyl, they know there is little backlash in saying you will fight something you just know you can't win.

I agree, Florida gambling would be big, but it still won't be better than Vegas because no other state has figured out you can't squeeze tons of tax dollars out of the casinos and come up with what Vegas provides. That is the secret as to why the Seminoles are doing so well. No gaming tax and no income tax. Add in a monopoly on land-based casinos and it doesn't matter what crap you put on the floor you are going to get and stay filthy rich. Someone did an analysis awhile back and figured out if they built out their casinos and just kept the Class II slots, they could eventually give every tribal member a good six-figure check and still have plenty left to run and expand the businesses they have. Yet morons like Bush go on about how terrible gambling is and how he is trying to stop it. He has been oh so successful so far, only thing he has stopped is the cruise ships. They closed down because the other gambling options were eating their lunch.

UPDATE UPDATE:


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</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE width="100%" valign="top"><TBODY><TR><TD>Interior Enters Class III Debate In Three States
Nov 16, 2006
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The Interior Department is moving to authorize Class III gaming for tribes in three states where the governor refuses to negotiate a compact, a senior official said on Tuesday.

The Seminole Tribe of Florida, the Poarch Band of Creek Indians in Alabama and the Tigua Tribe of Texas are in line for Class III procedures, said Paula Hart of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. "The process was developed when compact negotiations broke down," the official told attendees of the Global Gaming Expo in Las Vegas.

Additionally, Interior has already approved Class III rules for the Northern Arapaho Tribe of Wyoming after the state lost a major lawsuit, Hart said. The tribe has begun constructing a $10 million casino on the Wind River Reservation.

Under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, the federal government can authorize tribes to engage in certain forms of Class III gaming, depending on what's legal in the state. In Florida, for example, the Seminoles will only be able to operate slot machines.

But by bypassing the state, the tribe won't have to make any concessions that might otherwise be contained in a compact. "We are willing to share revenues with the state of Florida, but what are they going to give us in return?" asked Jim Shore, an attorney for the Seminoles.

Teri Poust, a member of the Poarch Band and representing the tribe , said the move to Class III gaming is crucial for her tribe due to pending federal regulations that would restrict the Class II industry. Her tribe is meeting with federal and state officials later this week to discuss the procedures.

In Texas, the Tigua Tribe formerly operated a Class III facility until it was shut down by the state. Although the state has legalized certain forms of gaming, governors as far back as the 1990s have refused to negotiate a compact.

"I guess I'm just trying to figure out what Texas is complaining about," said former Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colorado) at a June 2002 hearing on the issue.

Historically, it has been rare for Interior to issue Class III procedures because most tribes have been able to enter into compacts with states. According to Hart, tribes in 23 states have federally approved Class III compacts. Tribes in another state engage in Class III gaming pursuant to a court decision.

But as the stakes in the $23 billion Indian gaming industry rise, the compacting process is getting tougher. States are making more and more demands on tribes and usually have the upper hand in the negotiating process.

Some tribes, however, are using the threat of federal involvement to force the state to come to the table. Earlier this month, the Gun Lake Tribe of Michigan, where other tribes already have compacts, raised the possibility that its casino could open without state approval.

"A Class III compact would be best for the tribe, the state and the surrounding communities," said Gun Lake Chairman D.K. Sprague, citing a proposed compact to share 8 percent of slot revenues with the state and 2 percent with local governments.

Other states, like Nebraska, don't seem to feel threatened. Officials there have fought efforts by the Santee Sioux Tribe to offer a very limited number of Class III games under federal procedures. Beyond Florida, Texas, Alabama and Nebraska, the number of states that refuse to negotiate compacts has dwindled. Voters in Oklahoma, a longtime holdout, finally approved Class III gaming in 2004 in exchange for revenue sharing, although the amount has not been as high as expected.
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Fuck the Indians. I wouldn't trust those cocksuckers because when you hit a big jackpot they claim that you cheated. The Seminoles in Holllywood just got shamed into paying a winner even though they claimed that he did not win. If it wasn't for the bad publicity that guy would never have gotten paid. My father used to a judge in Miami and he had someone we knew that got cheated out of a jackpot by the Micosukees and there was no recourse because of federal sovereignty.

Gulfstream opened their slot casino two days with "real" slot machines. However, I am concerned that these machines are not going to pay well since the state is taxing the profits at a rate of 50%.

I am going to Gulfstream today to check out the payouts. I doubt there are any full pay machines, but I will see.

oh joy, slot machines are my fav game, cant wait hno:

:howdy: This is my first post to this great site. Hi to all!

WVU said:

I am going to Gulfstream today to check out the payouts. I doubt there are any full pay machines, but I will see.

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The level of payouts on machines are not determined by tax rates, but on the competition they have locally. Taxes are paid on the net win, so they have to maximize whatever win they can get and then pay tax on it. With the competition in Broward I am sure the machines will be decent payout levels, say on par with Atlantic City.

High taxes tend to do one thing, cut the level of amenities and then comps. Can't build a billion dollar facility if 50% of every dollar you make goes to the tax man. This is why Nevada, Mississippi, and AC continue to get massive hotels and investment, while the other states just put up casinos with minimal numbers of rooms or high-end amenities.

bard7696 said:

:howdy: This is my first post to this great site. Hi to all!

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hi

Hello, friend. Sunny florida sounds so nice right about now.

THEY ARE TRYING:




Posted on Wed, Mar. 07, 2007
Crist, Seminole tribe open talks on slots

BY AMY DRISCOLL
Gov. Charlie Crist and Florida's Seminole tribe have begun new negotiations to allow Las Vegas-style slot machines in tribal casinos, a move that could potentially bring millions of dollars to state coffers.
The two sides have met once, with more substantial discussions planned, Crist's office and a Seminole tribe spokesman both said. No date for negotiations has been set.
''We're anxious to sit down and talk,'' said tribe spokesman Gary Bitner.
The new governor didn't have many alternatives. Two weeks into Crist's term, the tribe filed court papers in Tallahassee declaring that it would take its fight directly to the federal government if the state continued to refuse to talk about the issue. The implication was clear: Unless the state reentered negotiations, it could lose out on a share of the tribe's hefty profits.
The Seminoles believe they have a right under federal Indian gaming regulations to offer the same type of slot machines -- called Class III -- already available at two Broward County racetracks.
The state has consistently blocked the tribe. Talks broke down last year under former Gov. Jeb Bush, a staunch opponent of gambling expansion in the state.
When Crist took office, he faced a choice. If the Seminoles are right and the federal government allows them to install the lucrative Class III slots, Florida wouldn't get any money out of the deal. But if Crist works out a legal agreement with the tribe, known as a gaming compact, the state likely would receive a portion of the money.
Other states with gaming compacts reap millions from tribal casinos: $345 million for Connecticut in 2005, $130 million for California and about $50 million for Arizona, according to information from the National Conference of State Legislatures.
Crist decided to negotiate.
''Following a brief preliminary meeting with the Seminole tribal leaders, Gov. Crist looks forward to entering into discussions with the expectation of achieving a compact,'' read a statement released last week by Vivian Myrtetus, Crist's communications director.
Though Crist has said in the past that he is opposed to the expansion of gambling, he is viewed by some in the gaming industry as less antagonistic than Bush. Crist accepted money from organizations with ties to gambling during his campaign for governor.
SLOT STANDOFF
The state and the tribe have been in a standoff since last year. One of the sore points: The Seminoles opened a tiny casino, 63 slot machines under a white tent on the Big Cypress reservation in the Everglades. The tribe already operated six casinos in Florida, including those in Hollywood, Tampa and Coconut Creek. Another one, on what the state considered to be environmentally sensitive land, did not go over well with the Bush administration.
The gambling landscape has changed a great deal in recent months. Las Vegas-style slot machines have opened at Broward County parimutuels, following voters' approval of the measure in 2005. The new slots, which are taxed by the state, are running at Mardi Gras Race Track and Gaming Center and Gulfstream Park and Casino. Pompano Park Harness Track and Dania Jai-Alai are next.
In December, the Seminole tribe announced a deal to purchase the Hard Rock restaurant and casino chain for $965 million -- a deal that closed Monday. The tribe is projected to generate $1.3 billion in Florida from its gaming revenue in 2007, according to Joseph Weinert, senior vice president of Spectrum Gaming Group. About 3,200 people belong to the tribe.
Miami-Dade County also is back in the running for slot machines at its horse and dog tracks. Though county residents rejected the 2005 referendum, the issue is expected to return to the ballot this year.
MAKING PROGRESS
Crist's willingness to talk about a compact is seen by the Seminoles as ''progress,'' according to Gary Bitner, tribe spokesman.
''We're waiting to hear about possible dates to start negotiations. . . . Any time you can sit down with anyone, it's progress,'' he said. ``There are no rigid conditions attached to it.''
But the tribe isn't going to call off the Tallahassee lawsuit. That, Bitner said, ``will continue on a dual track.''
The suit is an old one, filed in 1999, dormant until the tribe filed a motion to reactivate the case in mid-January. In the filings, the tribe made its position clear: State-approved gambling operations with Las Vegas-style slots have an unfair advantage over the Indian casinos, which are forced to offer the less-exciting -- and less lucrative -- bingo-style slots.
''The matter has become one of extreme urgency for the tribe,'' the tribe noted.
The tribe asked a judge to force the Department of Interior to issue procedures for operating Class III machines at tribal casinos. U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle indicated the tribe may need to refile its claim as a new, separate lawsuit. The tribe plans to continue with legal action in one form or another, Bitner said.