The Continual Sharp/Square Topic

Mr.Jones · Dec 9, 2005

As I keep an eye on the Marist/Manhattan game on sportline [Go Foxes]and eagerly await my big one on Iowa State tonight, I feel the need expend a bit of nervous energy typing and ask at the world's largest sportsbar just what exactly constitutes a "sharp' vs a "square' IYO.

I felt as though a "sharp" is a guy who manages his money, jumps on virgin lines, understands point spread value, spends a good while before he dismissess a dog particularly a home one. You know all that stuff. I could list more.

However, I was surprised to see in some thread here sombody said something about a dime, multi-dime maybe 5 dime player as a necessary ingredient to being "sharp".

It took me by surprise a little bit as I have thought a "sharp" could be a grinder, maybe even a $200 player at times, who grinds his way to a sizeable bankroll and gives himself no timetable as to when he hits the "big time".

Any thoughts gentlemen?

TTinCO · Dec 9, 2005

Ask me after the Iowa\ISU game......all we've heard all day is ISU backing, but the line has done nothing but drop, drop, drop.

I still think we cover -2.

FairWarning · Dec 9, 2005

Knowing when to get the best number is sharp. Size of bankroll means little. I know people who bet a lot and believe me, size of bet isn't sharp.

Right now, I would say a square play would be Pittsburgh -6/7 if you bet it now. It opened at -3. It could very well win and cover, but why take -6 when you could have -3. I personally am waiting for -7 to take the Bears.

nimue77 · Dec 9, 2005

Well, if sharp means some books kick you out, limit you, etcc.. for your play then i'd say it's mostly high limit players. Secondly, sharp players are generally the ones on the correct side of line movements imo.

Mr. Jones said:
As I keep an eye on the Marist/Manhattan game on sportline [Go Foxes]and eagerly await my big one on Iowa State tonight, I feel the need expend a bit of nervous energy typing and ask at the world's largest sportsbar just what exactly constitutes a "sharp' vs a "square' IYO.

I felt as though a "sharp" is a guy who manages his money, jumps on virgin lines, understands point spread value, spends a good while before he dismissess a dog particularly a home one. You know all that stuff. I could list more.

However, I was surprised to see in some thread here sombody said something about a dime, multi-dime maybe 5 dime player as a necessary ingredient to being "sharp".

It took me by surprise a little bit as I have thought a "sharp" could be a grinder, maybe even a $200 player at times, who grinds his way to a sizeable bankroll and gives himself no timetable as to when he hits the "big time".

Any thoughts gentlemen?

Christian · Dec 9, 2005

FairWarning said:
Knowing when to get the best number is sharp. Size of bankroll means little. I know people who bet a lot and believe me, size of bet isn't sharp.

Right now, I would say a square play would be Pittsburgh -6/7 if you bet it now. It opened at -3. It could very well win and cover, but why take -6 when you could have -3. I personally am waiting for -7 to take the Bears.

yeah, i loved the line movement in this game....but i didn't wait...i picked up Chicago at +6.5-102, that was great value for me...

i was worried that smart money (at least in my opinion) might be all over Chicago and drive the line down...or at the very least, keep it from ever hitting +7 at a reasonable price...

maybe i'll end up wrong, but the +6.5 was good enough for me....

i see this game being a complete toss-up....so getting 4 important pointspread numbers in my favor (+1, +3, +4 and +6) PLUS only a -102 price is great value!

D2bets · Dec 9, 2005

Christian said:
yeah, i loved the line movement in this game....but i didn't wait...i picked up Chicago at +6.5-102, that was great value for me...

i was worried that smart money (at least in my opinion) might be all over Chicago and drive the line down...or at the very least, keep it from ever hitting +7 at a reasonable price...

maybe i'll end up wrong, but the +6.5 was good enough for me....

i see this game being a complete toss-up....so getting 4 important pointspread numbers in my favor (+1, +3, +4 and +6) PLUS only a -102 price is great value!

Betting an NFL market line of +6.5 is a good indication that you're not sharp.

p.s. I like the Bears.

JimmyHoffa · Dec 10, 2005

This topic never ceases to amaze me.

If you look at the tout type posters here they're all sharp even when they win by a missed kick or a free throw that narrowly rims out.

In my opinion sports betting is one thing and one thing only:

Who do you think will win and will they cover?

Answer that question and pick a side.

Square or Sharp doesn't mean anything. Don't follow, lead.

Christian · Dec 10, 2005

D2bets said:
Betting an NFL market line of +6.5 is a good indication that you're not sharp.

p.s. I like the Bears.

where in my post did i claim to be "sharp"

i like how you put words in other people's mouths!

a lot of smart bettors i know, whose opinions i highly respect, are all over chicago...i would definitely consider them "smart money" and that was my worry...that this line wouldn't hit +7 at a reasonable price.

that's why i took the +6.5 at a good price when i saw it at pinnacle....it appeared to offer the best value. if i jumped the gun too soon, oh well, it wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last. this isn't an exact science, you know?

but i'm sure you're perfect at it.

JimmyHoffa · Dec 10, 2005

Christian said:
a lot of smart bettors i know, whose opinions i highly respect, are all over chicago...i would definitely consider them "smart money"

Follow the "smart money" to the poor house.

Don't follow anybody. Make your own plays.

Moon88 · Dec 10, 2005

The bears in my opinion this year have become a "popular" or as some may say "public" team. I feel that money will be coming in from all directions on the Bears this weekend. I don't play at NINE, but seems they are sporting a 7.

Higgory4 · Dec 10, 2005

jimmys right, ive already said this in a similar thread, who cares what the "public" is doing or the "sharps," look at each game, decide your own line, pick who is gonna win, or however u may handicap and then look at what games have the best values, these players arent trying to cover games, they arent concerned about who is a favorite, they just go out and play, by no means am i saying dont read what other ppl have to say, im just saying dont worry about why the line might be moving, just play what line YOU think is the play

Christian · Dec 10, 2005

Jimmy Hoffa said:
Follow the "smart money" to the poor house.

Don't follow anybody. Make your own plays.

you guys don't like to read the entire post, do you???....

check out the last line i wrote...it should have been obvious to you that i was ALREADY going to be on the bears this week...

i talked about my OWN HANDICAPPING giving me a "pick-em" line for this game...that's why i talked about 4 key pointspread numbers being between my line and the actual line (+1, +3, +4 and +6)...

did you skip over that part??? obviously you did!

i only talked about what i considered "smart money" in the context that it made me get down on the bet (WHICH I WAS GOING TO HAVE ANYWAY) a couple of days early, since i didn't see it going to +7 and i saw a higher risk of it slipping back to +6 instead! that was all i was talking about when i referenced "smart money"

next time, try reading the ENTIRE post!

Mr.Jones · Dec 10, 2005

I agree with Mr. Hoffa and the above post by Higgory4.

Insiders · Dec 10, 2005

Long ago i used to know a few bookmakers that were considered "sharp". As they were in the blackbook in Las Vegas and could not play there.
One thing i remember them telling me over and over, a sharp will never have a "bad" number going for them, as to beat the price was and "is" a major thing as we all know that playing to "good" numbers, "good" things happen. Playing to "bad" numbers only bad things can happen.
Some sharps of todays market claim the "only" number is the opener. As after the number has been tracked on by Everyone in the world its NO longer a good number.
Some even make plays when the number has been pounded by people they dont respect, includeing the public,as to getting a bargin from the opener.
Some play as soon as they hang the number up, and sometimes bet alot more than they really want, as they "think" they will be able to get off at a better price closer to starting time and have a nice middle going for them with being heavy to wichever side they want at that time.
Some say that "NO" sharps play the NFL, and only college sports is the ticket for these type players.
Most people that claim to be sharps are the doggie players, and sometimes small, very small chalks, less then a field goal usually. Just my 2cents worth!

If the Don Best screen goes black all at one time, it means that a GROUP of sharps gave just hit a game and the makers cant move it fast enough as they ALL got it at the same time. Billy Walters and the crew, and or crews, are without a doubt the Worlds BEST at this. Walters is considered the BEST of ALL sharps in college sports of todays times.
obtw last i heard from the Shrink he was Greatly involved with this in "college" only.

Christian · Dec 10, 2005

Higgory4 said:
im just saying dont worry about why the line might be moving, just play what line YOU think is the play

don't worry about why the line might be moving? that's terrible advice!

you could be screwing yourself in the long run....

you should want to know which way the line is heading....

once you handicap your games sunday night, it'll help you to wait when you can to catch a better price later on in the week, and conversely, it will help you get down a play earlier in the week if you think the line is going to slip against you!

that's what i was talking about with the Chicago play....a lot of chicago bettors held out and picked up +6 and +6.5's...some are probably still waiting for +7's...

if those guys hadn't been patient (myself included) and hadn't been watching lines they would have just settled for a +4 or +4.5!!! they would have missed out a much better price...

that's what i was referencing in my post....i was worried that this play wouldn't hit +7 at a reasonable price, and may even slip back down to +6, so i placed the bet....

i don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Insiders · Dec 10, 2005

It Really depends on WHO is moveing the line. Sometimes it better to wait and sometimes Not. It just depends on which side of a game that you want to be on, thats all.

winbet · Dec 10, 2005

Jimmy Hoffa said:
This topic never ceases to amaze me.

If you look at the tout type posters here they're all sharp even when they win by a missed kick or a free throw that narrowly rims out.

In my opinion sports betting is one thing and one thing only:

Who do you think will win and will they cover?

Answer that question and pick a side.

Square or Sharp doesn't mean anything. Don't follow, lead.

Spot on as usual Jimmy, I can never understand how people always assume one side to be the sharp play, as in this case everyone thinking Chicago. Who would bet them if they watched or listened to their games, with that Offense you die a thousand deaths playing them and your nuts tighten up every time Orton goes back to throw, that 6 points is just a suck in for the square loser types.

Christian · Dec 10, 2005

Insiders said:
It Really depends on WHO is moveing the line. Sometimes it better to wait and sometimes Not. It just depends on which side of a game that you want to be on, thats all.

exactly! that's all i was saying....i was worried that the kind of money that was coming in on chicago would keep this line from getting to +7, at least at a reasonable price...

that's why i snapped up the +6.5....

just like you said, sometimes you should wait, sometimes you have to "pull the trigger" early...it just depends on where you see the line moving later on (if at all)

and when you handicap a game to be a "pick em" and you can get +6.5 points AND a good -102 price....there's no point in risking it, trying to get "greedy" looking for that +7, when you have a gut feeling that it's going against you

heart222 · Dec 10, 2005

never quite sure if i am sq or sharp. i like favorites up 60% this year must be sharp:

). I bet mechanical systems and bet early a.m. east coast time when i get up before i go to work. i come home and sometimes especially in nba lines have moved 2-3 points and i can try for middles sharp right.
I dont buy this value issue the only value is winning. what is it the fav win 80% and cover 60 so why am i looking for value on the dogs.
i dont want to get into the chic game i have no position as it is not clear who might win. if pitt runsthe opening kickoff back game over. must be better places to bet but that would make me sharp instead of square.
lets face it the only thing that counts is who wins game then the points are secondary. everybody is all over christian for getting 6.5 who knows if line comes down to 5,5 or 6 he looks lik a genius (sharp) if it goes to 7 he looks like a sq:

).
everybody who posts here thinks there sharp and the other guys who dont are squares. lets get real were all trying to make some bucks on the side and have some fun be it sq or sharp.