If I was in charge I would fire those two managers instantly. Their job is not to gamble on a game, it is to get the money distributed easily. To justify the fact they are getting their ass kicked by saying it's better to let the customers bet a weak number and spend their money in a casino would have them out on the street in minutes if they were answering to me.
understandable GD, but I understand their view as well.
If LVSC, or some other consultant sent you a # of the Chargers -10 vs. the Bills for that week, and every John Q. Public is betting that # up to 13.5, it's not your fault that the # ran that much. Especially for the NFL.
It's really a lose, lose spot if you have that much of a move and let guys like Fezzik, or some syndicate players buy back for the limit on the dog. Eventually you'll get middled, which is much worse than just taking a stand on a # and letting the house have a position on a game
If LVSC, or some other consultant sent you a # of the Chargers -10 vs. the Bills for that week, and every John Q. Public is betting that # up to 13.5, it's not your fault that the # ran that much. Especially for the NFL.
It's really a lose, lose spot if you have that much of a move and let guys like Fezzik, or some syndicate players buy back for the limit on the dog. Eventually you'll get middled, which is much worse than just taking a stand on a # and letting the house have a position on a game
Good point Booze,
the problem is you take the number given and adjust it to your clientele. As a bookmaker you could care less if someone middles your number versus the guy across the street as long as you balance your action.
If you get balanced action at -11 and everyone else is at -7 (an extreme example), you book it at 11 and take 50/50. The problem lies when a book exposes themselves to one side, and they continually think well next week the dogs will cover, then the next week and the week thereafter.
It is just shoddy bookmaking and a sheepherd mentality.
the problem is you take the number given and adjust it to your clientele. As a bookmaker you could care less if someone middles your number versus the guy across the street as long as you balance your action.
If you get balanced action at -11 and everyone else is at -7 (an extreme example), you book it at 11 and take 50/50. The problem lies when a book exposes themselves to one side, and they continually think well next week the dogs will cover, then the next week and the week thereafter.
It is just shoddy bookmaking and a sheepherd mentality.
To continue,
in a perfect world the house shouldn't have a position on any game, just collect the juice and have the losers pay the winners. That is the essence of bookmaking.
In reality, there is some exposure on a side in some instances. When the exposure becomes great such as this year, it should not be acceptable to say "well we just got beat the favorites are covering".
Good books adjust, bad ones will lose their money. Brick and mortar places will just say "they will lose it in the casino anyway, it is good for business". Internet places will just fold up and not pay players.
I'm sure Bill has access to some numbers, but I can tell you that I know for a fact one Vegas book that is down over $1 million this football season. Now if you are that sportsbook manager's boss are you really going to take his answer that "they will lose it in the casino, so it's good for business". I would tell him to enjoy his new job because he wouldn't be working for me. That was my point.
in a perfect world the house shouldn't have a position on any game, just collect the juice and have the losers pay the winners. That is the essence of bookmaking.
In reality, there is some exposure on a side in some instances. When the exposure becomes great such as this year, it should not be acceptable to say "well we just got beat the favorites are covering".
Good books adjust, bad ones will lose their money. Brick and mortar places will just say "they will lose it in the casino anyway, it is good for business". Internet places will just fold up and not pay players.
I'm sure Bill has access to some numbers, but I can tell you that I know for a fact one Vegas book that is down over $1 million this football season. Now if you are that sportsbook manager's boss are you really going to take his answer that "they will lose it in the casino, so it's good for business". I would tell him to enjoy his new job because he wouldn't be working for me. That was my point.
GD, where have you been for me sir? I have a hard enough time to get people to talk without being identified. This year book managers don't even want to speak off the record. I actually started out with a different inquiry, but after talking to a few who wanted to get this message out I took a shot at it. One was very adamant about it, he said his manager understands completely. As he put it, "doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you are losing money on parlay cards in a given season, its a bad year for the house".
I'd love to talk to others, please hook me up with them and I will post a different tune if they tell me so. But I think most are not having a stellar year and are under tight orders not to say a thing about it. The few that have the authority to talk are just going about it business as usual as best as they can. Now if this becomes a two or three year trend then there probably will be a lot of guys sending out resumes.
In any case with all the rumors out there of some groups with a "system" lowering the table hold all around town, the book managers aren't the only ones getting the scrutiny this year.
I'd love to talk to others, please hook me up with them and I will post a different tune if they tell me so. But I think most are not having a stellar year and are under tight orders not to say a thing about it. The few that have the authority to talk are just going about it business as usual as best as they can. Now if this becomes a two or three year trend then there probably will be a lot of guys sending out resumes.
In any case with all the rumors out there of some groups with a "system" lowering the table hold all around town, the book managers aren't the only ones getting the scrutiny this year.
GreenDoberman said:
agreed. I worked behind the counter for a few years as well, and there's no way in hell the corporate big wigs would accept that kind of answer from their sportsbook director/managers as an excuse why they cost the house big $$$ over the weekend.
Unfortunately with this year of the faves, parlay cards have really bumped up the risk on each Sunday. With the #'s set in stone on the cards it's almost impossible to get two way action on those things. and you figure a $10 15 teamer which pays $100k isn't gonna come in too often, if ever, hit twice within one week at a book in Vegas. Tough to blame that on the r/s managers.
Ask the sportsbook managers who'd they'd rather lose to between the public and the wiseguys, and they'll take the public everytime, because unfortunately the public will probably give it back in one way or another.
Plus the wiseguys are shitty tippers, so I don't mind if they get their a$$es kicked once in a while
The LVSC has nothing to worry about with the stupid Nevada rules protecting them. I am sure they have heard plenty of choice words, but the truth is if the books are getting hammered weekly most of them know better and should instantly add another point to each favorite. At the very least they should be watching the Sunday night moves offshore and it would show them little risk in bumping up the number at least a half, if not a full point.
WildBill,
not exactly sure what you are asking me. I enjoyed your article and to me at least it brought to light the fact many sportsbook managers (and I'll even venture to say casino, poker, slot, etc. managers) just aren't that bright and don't get it.
Basically, one gets to be a manager because they like the job and they outlast other people. Often times they follow the pack and like your quotes were place the blame elsewhere or deflect it.
I'll be happy to answer your questions. You can email, call or come by, just know anything on the record would have to be approved through the company.
And for the record (Bill knows this, but not eveyone reading does), I am not a sportsbook guy, I'm a poker guy, but I do have a little business sense, just a little.
not exactly sure what you are asking me. I enjoyed your article and to me at least it brought to light the fact many sportsbook managers (and I'll even venture to say casino, poker, slot, etc. managers) just aren't that bright and don't get it.
Basically, one gets to be a manager because they like the job and they outlast other people. Often times they follow the pack and like your quotes were place the blame elsewhere or deflect it.
I'll be happy to answer your questions. You can email, call or come by, just know anything on the record would have to be approved through the company.
And for the record (Bill knows this, but not eveyone reading does), I am not a sportsbook guy, I'm a poker guy, but I do have a little business sense, just a little.
I meant I want to talk to the source who told you about the million dollar deficit and hear their take on it, anonymously of course. And yes totally agree the analysis used by a lot of casino people is laughable, especially the old timers. Do you guys at the IP still have craps pit bosses who kick the table when it gets rolling???
I will stop by sometime soon and catch up GD.
I will stop by sometime soon and catch up GD.
Funny how...
Nevada gradually became so shitty for everything: blackjack, serious horseplaying, sportsbetting, comping & customer service...nothing's left to do out there-- except for $15 cocktails, $100 per person dinners, $?!#&* shows-- but i can stay in my own city to do that....
I think a bad economic downturn will actually do Vegas a lot of good: then we'll maybe see the implementing of online betting, parimutuel sports betting, better comping & treatment of customers(re winners in bj & sports betting), new blood running things.....
Nevada gradually became so shitty for everything: blackjack, serious horseplaying, sportsbetting, comping & customer service...nothing's left to do out there-- except for $15 cocktails, $100 per person dinners, $?!#&* shows-- but i can stay in my own city to do that....
I think a bad economic downturn will actually do Vegas a lot of good: then we'll maybe see the implementing of online betting, parimutuel sports betting, better comping & treatment of customers(re winners in bj & sports betting), new blood running things.....
