Canada

JDeuce · Dec 29, 2005

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html

Here it comes again from Canada...the tiny apartment above the great party. They blame us for everything else...so why not blame the US for violence in their own cities?

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Yeah...our bad. Those anti-gun laws up there are really a huge deterrent for someone who wants to get a gun, eh? I guess those gang-members will have to start using harsh language to kill their rivals...and it'll all be OUR fault.

How quickly they forgot about the flow of terrorists from their side, eh?

Hey Canada and Canadians all around: go fuck yourselves. Your laws suck, your cities blow, and your people are big, fat, whiny leeches.

919 · Dec 29, 2005

Wow...great post. Only Americans get to complain right?....lmao.

JoeContrarian · Dec 29, 2005

That was crass but well deserved.

TheRightWing · Dec 29, 2005

was surprised to hear such a high gang rate there......fix the problems and quit blaming it on guns.

JoeContrarian · Dec 29, 2005

A question for Prime Minister Paul Martin:

How does he know -- as he put it in the wake of the Boxing Day shootings on Yonge St. -- that these crimes "demonstrate what are in fact the consquences of exclusion"? What is he talking about? Does Martin have some unique insight into the motivation of these particular criminals that no one else possesses at this point? Why does he assume, in typical knee-jerk liberal (and Liberal) fashion, that these unconscionable acts must have been the result of "exclusion" -- implying as it does that society somehow failed the shooter, or shooters?

Maybe what really happened is that society failed the victims, by failing to protect them from known gangsters and drug dealers. Maybe this tragedy demonstrates what are in fact the consequences of lax laws on gun crime, a revolving-door criminal justice system, easy bail and early parole.

We don't know. But neither does Martin. What we do know is that he's demonstrating the exact type of oh-so-politically correct thinking that has paralysed this country when it comes to fighting crime. It's this constant condescending and patronizing attitude -- pervasive among our liberal/Liberal elites -- that, from the moment an awful crime occurs, we must all blame ourselves.

It's now become standard operating procedure in these tragedies. Within hours, politicians like Martin publicly wring their hands, while various activists pop up to demand, what else, more social spending. (Meanwhile, Mayor David Miller blames the U.S., still unable to grasp this is Toronto's problem.)

Here's a news flash for this crowd -- especially Martin:

The thugs who commited these crimes are already lost to civil society. No new social program or job offer or basketball court is going to save them, even assuming it would have in the first place. It's too late. They need to be rounded up, taken off our streets and put away for a long time.

After that, once the bullets stop flying, we can have a rational discussion about putting plans in place so that, 20 years from now, another generation of gangsters isn't terrorizing our streets. But for now, we need to focus on taking our streets back from these thugs. Not on touchy-feely nonsense from Martin & Co. about how we failed them.

Dawoofdaddy · Dec 29, 2005

The Right Wing said:
was surprised to hear such a high gang rate there......fix the problems and quit blaming it on guns.

Why be suprised by gangs in Toronto?

After allowing several hundreds of thousands of Hatians, Jamaicans, Vietnamese, and South Americans to immigrate to Canada (most the past couple decades) and wonder why there are gang problems?

Not a question of if...the question is when.

Where there are drugs and gangs...there will be guns.

TheRightWing · Dec 29, 2005

Woofy, I agree but every Country will need to address a culture change just quit blaming others for your own problems......guns following gangs we all know that but start at the root of the problems which is

parenting!

nimue77 · Dec 29, 2005

You could take drugs out of that equation by regulating them all instead of prohibiting. :103631605

DAWOOFDADDY said:
Why be suprised by gangs in Toronto?

After allowing several hundreds of thousands of Hatians, Jamaicans, Vietnamese, and South Americans to immigrate to Canada (most the past couple decades) and wonder why there are gang problems?

Not a question of if...the question is when.

Where there are drugs and gangs...there will be guns.

docmercer--banned · Dec 29, 2005

<table id="post2462808" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_2462808">"Your laws suck, your cities blow, and your people are big, fat, whiny leeches"

That could apply to America just as well ...

 </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2">

</td> <td class="alt1" align="right">  </td></tr></tbody></table>

kingbill · Dec 29, 2005

The Right Wing said:
Woofy, I agree but every Country will need to address a culture change just quit blaming others for your own problems......guns following gangs we all know that but start at the root of the problems which is

parenting!

You forgot poverty, growing up broke has just as much or more to do with kids joining gangs as bad parenting.

JoeContrarian · Dec 29, 2005

Bad parenting (not reaching self sufficiency) more often than not, results in bad judgment, leading to poverty, which breeds more bad parenting. It's a vicious cycle. Seems these things always come full circle with liberals and their utopian band-aid solutions to society's ills.

xpanda · Dec 29, 2005

The whole thing is such a mess. While the US has been dealing with gang violence for the better part of 30 years, it's rather new to us. In Vancouver, there were problems with Asian gangs involved in heroin smuggling, in Toronto the problem is Vietnamese gangs (drug related) and black gangs (drug/territory related.)

I was out last night at my local and a few cop friends were there. We got to talking about the Yonge Street shooting .. apparently 60 shots were fired in total and the 15-year-old girl that died was hit by a stray bullet. Anyway, the cops themselves blamed a combination of things: the smuggling of automatic weapons across the border from the States (not your fault, but ours for lack of border security), lax penalties for gun crimes, and of course the gang culture that makes it almost cool to be marginalised.

Our politicians at the moment are running around spewing talking points that will appeal to their bases in the runup to the next election. One side says tougher border security is needed, one side says stricter penalties are needed, yet another says lack of opportunity is the problem, yet another blames the rap culture.

It's more likely a combination of all of this crap, imo.

But I'd like to see them start by tightening up the border. Then worry about dealing with the domestic build-up that causes folks to fuck up their lives beyond repair at age 12.

FightingSioux · Dec 29, 2005

kingbill said:
You forgot poverty, growing up broke has just as much or more to do with kids joining gangs as bad parenting.

BS, if parents instill good values and work ethic kids wouldn't join gangs. These poverish people you're referring to, are they the same ones selling the drugs to are kids and at the same times collecting welfare. In many cases, Yes. Parenting is the #1 factor in determining the outcome of a child. Stop trying to blame the system!

xpanda · Dec 29, 2005

FightingSioux said:
BS, if parents instill good values and work ethic kids wouldn't join gangs. These poverish people you're referring to, are they the same ones selling the drugs to are kids and at the same times collecting welfare. In many cases, Yes. Parenting is the #1 factor in determining the outcome of a child. Stop trying to blame the system!

You're right to an extent, but don't forget that poverty forces people to live in areas where the risk of violence is higher. Parents ARE the #1 influence in their kids' lives but they certainly aren't the only one.

xpanda · Dec 29, 2005

Joe C., you live in Toronto .. what is David Miller's position on this? I realise he can't legislate gun crime penalties, but what is his approach? More cops, more basketball courts, what?

FightingSioux · Dec 29, 2005

xpanda said:
You're right to an extent, but don't forget that poverty forces people to live in areas where the risk of violence is higher. Parents ARE the #1 influence in their kids' lives but they certainly aren't the only one.

Could you show me where I said parents are the only factor to influence kids? I don't think I said that, but I might be mistaken.

My response was to this bonehead comment: "growing up broke has just as much or more to do with kids joining gangs as bad parenting."

FightingSioux · Dec 29, 2005

xpanda said:
In Vancouver, there were problems with Asian gangs involved in heroin smuggling, in Toronto the problem is Vietnamese gangs (drug related) and black gangs (drug/territory related.)

Now it all makes sense. After reading this, it clearly shows that Canada's problems all stem from the USA.

xpanda · Dec 29, 2005

FightingSioux said:
Could you show me where I said parents are the only factor to influence kids? I don't think I said that, but I might be mistaken.

Nice unprovoked hostility on ya.

Jesus.

You said:

"BS, if parents instill good values and work ethic kids wouldn't join gangs. "

I replied by pointing out that parents can only do so much as there are other influences in kids' lives, often determined by their immediate neighbourhood.

Now it all makes sense. After reading this, it clearly shows that Canada's problems all stem from the USA.

What is your problem?

Did anything I write make you think that it was a QUOTE BY ME in the original article?? Or did you miss this part:

xpanda said:
the cops themselves blamed a combination of things: the smuggling of automatic weapons across the border from the States (not your fault, but ours for lack of border security)

I DID NOT AGREE with the comments made by our Prime Minister or by the Mayor of Toronto.

READ before you jump down my throat.

kingbill · Dec 29, 2005

FightingSioux said:
BS, if parents instill good values and work ethic kids wouldn't join gangs. These poverish people you're referring to, are they the same ones selling the drugs to are kids and at the same times collecting welfare. In many cases, Yes. Parenting is the #1 factor in determining the outcome of a child. Stop trying to blame the system!

I joined a gang because I was broke and sick of being broke and 3/4's of those that I ran with were sick of being broke, their parents were broke, their grandparents were broke and all the way back. The Gangs from Regent Park, Jane and Finch or Glendower housing projects are full of kids who want to break the cycle of poverty, sadly this is the way they think they can do it. There were lots of guns in Toronto 13 years ago but all the shootings were happening in the Housing projects so now that this year it has moved to the suburbs people care.

I never said parents weren't part of the problem, Governments can't legislate good parenting but they can help get people off welfare, help get people off drugs, help people put money in their pockets. If that happens you would be surprised how many more good parents there are.

FightingSioux · Dec 29, 2005

xpanda said:
Did anything I write make you think that it was a QUOTE BY ME in the original article?? Or did you miss this part:

I DID NOT AGREE with the comments made by our Prime Minister or by the Mayor of Toronto.

READ before you jump down my throat.

The "now it all makes sense to me" was in response to the article, not to you. I guess I should have made that clear.