Whois Internet question......

maxdemo · Jan 20, 2006

Does an IP adress location mean that the server is located at that location?? I did a search on some popular Gambling sites on Whois site and found this info on the major sportsbooks that we use...

5dimes
<TABLE bgColor=#ffffea><TBODY><TR><TD>IP Address: </TD><TD>216.152.164.80 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)</TD></TR><TR><TD>IP Location: </TD><TD>

- Florida - Miami - Lacnic</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Pinnacle
<TABLE bgColor=#ffffea><TBODY><TR><TD>IP Address: </TD><TD>209.200.134.24 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)</TD></TR><TR><TD>IP Location: </TD><TD>

- Prolexic Technologies Inc</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
OrgName: Prolexic Technologies, Inc.
OrgID: PROLE
Address: Prolexic Technologies
Address: 1930 Harrison Street
City: Hollywood
StateProv: FL
PostalCode: 33020
Country: US

Nine.com
<TABLE bgColor=#ffffea><TBODY><TR><TD>IP Address: </TD><TD>216.194.167.105 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)</TD></TR><TR><TD>IP Location: </TD><TD>

- Arizona - Phoenix - Ingenieria A.s.c.a</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>OrgName: Ingenieria A.S.C.A.
OrgID: INGN
Address: 7065 W. Allison Drive
City: Chandler
StateProv: AZ
PostalCode: 85226
Country: US

Thegreek.com
<TABLE bgColor=#ffffea><TBODY><TR><TD>IP Address: </TD><TD>209.200.130.21 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)</TD></TR><TR><TD>IP Location: </TD><TD>

- Prolexic Technologies Inc</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
OrgName: Prolexic Technologies, Inc.
OrgID: PROLE
Address: Prolexic Technologies
Address: 1930 Harrison Street
City: Hollywood
StateProv: FL
PostalCode: 33020
Country: US

Does this concern anyone??

zee · Jan 20, 2006

Yes, I've thought on it, I believe it could be a potential problem in the future.

Whoson1st · Jan 20, 2006

I am shocked at this....you mean to tell me that somepart of their operations is in the US? server?

wolfie_cr · Jan 20, 2006

after the DDoS attacks that everyone can remember, most books that were being attacked contracted the services of a company called Prolexic which ONLY handles the DDoS protection

they act as a shield between everyone else and the servers which ARE in the books premises , thats why you are seeing such prolexic company

also that place where you are getting the results is listing "Lacnic" as being in the USA , LACNIC is the internet "entity" that controls the IPs allocations for Latin America (lacnic.net) so dont worry that IP is not in the US

IP blocks get changed so sometimes an IP that was in the States is reassigned to a country down here and sometimes it takes a while for this change to be logged in propietary IPs databases

CapnHandi · Jan 20, 2006

whois on IP address usually has nothing to do with where the server is located - it's usually a business address of the company that registered the URL.

tracert from DOS command can give a better picture of location -
doing a tracert 216.152.164.80

I was able to find this info:
Contact Us at:
Schottegatweg Oost 54, Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles
Phone (599 9) 737 4400 • Fax (599 9) 737 4422
E-mail info@carats.net

maxdemo · Jan 20, 2006

Whoson1st said:
I am shocked at this....you mean to tell me that somepart of their operations is in the US? server?

That why I posted this because if they go after the off shore gambling and the server is in the US then that means I am making illegal wagers in the US...is that right??

wolfie_cr · Jan 20, 2006

CapnHandi said:
whois on IP address usually has nothing to do with where the server is located - it's usually a business address of the company that registered the URL.

tracert from DOS command can give a better picture of location -
doing a tracert 216.152.164.80

I was able to find this info:
Contact Us at:
Schottegatweg Oost 54, Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles
Phone (599 9) 737 4400 • Fax (599 9) 737 4422
E-mail info@carats.net

the whois address is most certainly what CapnHandi is talking about, however maxdemo is refering to a database where they show the IP address and a recorded location based on the owner of the IP block (or hosting company)

TTinCO · Jan 20, 2006

maxdemo said:
That why I posted this because if they go after the off shore gambling and the server is in the US then that means I am making illegal wagers in the US...is that right??

The servers are not in the US. Look at the prolexic.com site-they specialize in DoS prevention. What happens is that all traffic going to the books passes through their filters before reaching the books offshore servers.

Think of them as a filtering relay-that's all it is.

Dante · Jan 20, 2006

CapnHandi said:
whois on IP address usually has nothing to do with where the server is located - it's usually a business address of the company that registered the URL.

tracert from DOS command can give a better picture of location -
doing a tracert 216.152.164.80

I was able to find this info:
Contact Us at:
Schottegatweg Oost 54, Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles
Phone (599 9) 737 4400 • Fax (599 9) 737 4422
E-mail info@carats.net

good stuff thanks for clearing it up

wolfie_cr · Jan 20, 2006

maxdemo said:
That why I posted this because if they go after the off shore gambling and the server is in the US then that means I am making illegal wagers in the US...is that right??

yeah but as I just explained the IP you are seeing IS NOT the servers but the anti DDoS shield that its in front of it......they can go to that address they wont find the server that has the bets info

maxdemo · Jan 20, 2006

But your info passes these DDos sheilds?? In the US right...so whats to say that the Govt wont consider the "Sheild" illegal since its on US soil?

Thanks for the Info..just want to make sure...

wolfie_cr · Jan 20, 2006

maxdemo said:
But your info passes these DDos sheilds?? In the US right...so whats to say that the Govt wont consider the "Sheild" illegal since its on US soil?

Thanks for the Info..just want to make sure...

well your info also passes through your ISP servers....on its way out to the server...if the US were to apply the rule that any server that passes info on its way out is in violation then comcast/att/bellsouth and every single ISP would be in violation

now something tells me that eventually they will try that theory

ucking: but its a VERY long shot because then ISPs would also be helping when someone searches for child porn on the internet and they relay those packets (they would be liable I mean by passing that info through)

zee · Jan 20, 2006

they act as a shield between everyone else and the servers which ARE in the books premises , thats why you are seeing such prolexic company

Well, yeah, a carib bookmaker is using the proxy/firewall services of a company bounded by US laws. ALL traffic is going trough it. If I'm in Curacao, and I want to visit a Curacao bookie which uses their services my traffic would still go through the US. Like I said, I do see a potential problem in the future. I have no idea how far they can go to "fight the good fight".

Edit:

now something tells me that eventually they will try that theory

Agreed. My initial point as well.

wolfie_cr · Jan 20, 2006

zee said:
Well, yeah, a carib bookmaker is using the proxy/firewall services of a company bounded by US laws. ALL traffic is going trough it. If I'm in Curacao, and I want to visit a Curacao bookie which uses their services my traffic would still go through the US. Like I said, I do see a potential problem in the future. I have no idea how far they can go to "fight the good fight".

Edit:

Agreed. My initial point as well.

yes BUT YOUR ISP is HELPING commit a potential violation by allowing YOU to contact this illegal company so the ISP is also in trouble?

also........supose that the US says "the servers are made by Hewlett Packard or Dell THEY TOO are in violation...."

I am not a lawyer..........but it would hardly work.........."I am a company and I provide telecommunications services to x company....I dont know what they do , I dont care"

same goes for companies that provide voice over IP services to sportsbooks (and they happened to be based in the US), they provide a phone line..........are they being targetted ? no

TTinCO · Jan 20, 2006

This would be a HUGE stretch. Your internet traffic goes through many, many "hops" and relays before reaching it's destination.

These are no different other than they have some filtering capabilities. They are "in line" traffic filters, and the traffic still terminates offshore.

zee · Jan 20, 2006

wolfie, you're wrong. ISP's are providing a service to a person and as a gambler you're not actively breaking the law. Prolexic provide a service to a company that actually COULD be found to break the law(as a bookmaker). Also:

"I am a company and I provide telecommunications services to x company....I dont know what they do , I dont care"

LOL. BS. That's only through if you have CC status. For any other telecom service you're potentially liable if it's found that you KNEW about the company's activity and still provided the service.
Again, at the current state of affairs, everything is fine, I wouldn't bet 5 cents on it being ok in one year time.

wolfie_cr · Jan 20, 2006

zee said:
wolfie, you're wrong. ISP's are providing a service to a person and as a gambler you're not actively breaking the law. Prolexic provide a service to a company that actually COULD be found to break the law(as a bookmaker). Also:

LOL. BS. That's only through if you have CC status. For any other telecom service you're potentially liable if it's found that you KNEW about the company's activity and still provided the service.
Again, at the current state of affairs, everything is fine, I wouldn't bet 5 cents on it being ok in one year time.

At the end of the day Costa Rica has only a handful of upstream ISPs in the UNITED STATES that send all traffic to here...........if that theory holds then REGARDLESS of prolexic/or not ........the US could force all USA ISPs to block traffic to ANY gaming site as they are actively moving traffic to their servers, then.....the USA could ask dell/hewlett packard etc to disclose what they do with their products that have HIGH ENCRYPTION CAPABILITIES and are being used in the egaming business.......

btw lets hipothetically supose that they shutdown prolexic........it would take a couple of days to reroute everything the normal way and everything goes back to business as usual....sure enough a different solution for DDoS attacks would have to be found

Woody0 · Jan 20, 2006

wolfie_cr said:
btw lets hipothetically supose that they shutdown prolexic........it would take a couple of days to reroute everything the normal way and everything goes back to business as usual....sure enough a different solution for DDoS attacks would have to be found

No problem, prolexic or whoever would simply open offshore.

Whoson1st · Jan 20, 2006

Woody0 said:
No problem, prolexic or whoever would simply open offshore.

That would seem to me what would happen. This entire thing has gone over my head as I though and still do that there is no bet, UNTIL such time as the book in whevever country takes the bet.